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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/22/2010 2:42:56 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2408
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RYNODOG
These are just 3 reasons why.
quote:
Might I ask, Bryan, where in this passage does it say "continues to commit" adultery?
I do not believe it needs to say that. Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
Greetings
quote:
I do not believe it needs to say that.
Actually the word speaks very loudly and always speaks a word to whom it is given by conviction
quote:
These are just 3 reasons why.
1) We are to love our bride as Christ loves us, His bride.
This love always perseveres and hopes and never ends.
2) We are to forgive as God forgives us
This forgiveness is always open to reconciliation upon true repentance. It does not say, "you committed adultery against me and married Zeus or Satan so I will not, cannot, take you back.
3) Our "yes" is to mean "yes"
When I say "until death do us part" and "as long as we both shall live" I didn't mean "until you divorce me and "marry" someone else" or "as long as you don't divorce me."
No the reiteration from the exception is in 3 parts.... and those aren't it
Here is a make shift graph to show the exception
The exception is applied by a solid |
The one who IS divorced for SI
________The Law_________No exception> Guilty________marries again =Guilty______
Therefore the sin committed, in the judgment , reiterates after “its own kind,” which means.....
The other who marries them who IS divorced.... receives the same judgment.
The one who divorced the other for SI
________The Law_________exception>| NOT Guilty________marries again = NOT Guilty______
Therefore there is NO sin committed, in the judgment , reiterates after “its own kind,” which means.....
The other who marries them.... receives the same judgment.
The one who divorced the other for any reason
________The Law_________NO exception> BOTH ARE Guilty________either one who marries again = BOTH ARE Guilty______
Therefore the sin committed, in the judgment , reiterates after “its own kind,” which means.....
Whoever marries them who divorced for any reason.... receives the same judgment.
So we have 3 Parts there.... the exception fulfills all 3
John 16:8
And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment:
John 16:9 Of sin, because they believe not on me;
John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more;
John 16:11 Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.
LG
< Message edited by LoyalGypsy -- 8/22/2010 2:52:32 PM >
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed "obey My voice"
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/22/2010 3:08:31 PM
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gmcspice
Posts: 1345
Joined: 12/26/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RYNODOG
quote:
LG,
This is a funny thing to say... coming from someone who believes a doctrine that nobody taught for 1500 years of Christianity... to those who believe in a doctrine that has been taught since the beginning of Christianity... namely... the indissolubility of marriage.
quote:
The early church didn't teach the doctrine that is taught by the modern MDR movement. The early church upheld the standards for divorce and remarriage given in Deut. 24:1-4, the early church didn't believe that divorce it self was required for repentance for those who had remarried, the early church didn't believe those who were remarried were destined for hell, etc... What is taught by the MDR movement is a doctrine that was rejected by the church for nearly 2000 years.
Hello Benelchi,
Partaking of Holy Communion was (and still is to some) a very big deal to the early Church. What Church leaders throughout history (PRE 16th century) have said, "you have divorced and married again, but you may come on down and receive Holy Communion while continuing to have sex with your new partner?"
So you are saying that those who are married again cannot be saved and have fellowship with God and the Holy Spirit or his word?
That is absolutely preposterous and does not Say that anywhere in the Bible.
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/22/2010 4:23:55 PM
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RYNODOG
Posts: 664
Joined: 3/15/2010
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quote:
Partaking of Holy Communion was (and still is to some) a very big deal to the early Church. What Church leaders throughout history (PRE 16th century) have said, "you have divorced and married again, but you may come on down and receive Holy Communion while continuing to have sex with your new partner?"
quote:
So you are saying that those who are married again cannot be saved and have fellowship with God and the Holy Spirit or his word?
That is absolutely preposterous and does not Say that anywhere in the Bible.
Good afternoon gmcspice, hope you are well.
I am not sure that premise #2 is stated in the Bible but I hope you would accept it...
1) Whoever divorces his wife and marries someone else (=another)commits adultery.
Luke 16:18
18Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
2) Adultery is Committed by adulterers.
3) Adulterers will not inherit the kingdom of God.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Again, Jesus clearly says that marrying another is adultery. You make the claim that it is not continuous adultery. When does that adultery end?
I am not saying that someone who has divorced a one flesh covenant partner and married someone else while the one flesh covenant partner still lives "cannot be saved." I am only saying that the scripturese tell us they will not be saved if they remain in an adulterous relationship (remain an adulterer). I am still patiently waiting for you to explain how the marriage Jesus calls "adultery" in His words above ceases to be adultery without the adulterous relationship ending. It seems to be the only sexually immoral relationship you maintain should continue.
You do not seem to believe that a homosexual "married" couple should remain married. You do not seem to believe that Greg should continue his affair with secretary Candy while married to Marsha.
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
< Message edited by RYNODOG -- 8/22/2010 4:32:31 PM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/22/2010 4:34:57 PM
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RYNODOG
Posts: 664
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Hello LG,
[Luke 16:18 (King James Version)
18Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
We can plainly see that one commits adultery by divorcing and marrying another. You contend that it is not continuous adultery. When does the adultery end? What event/change in heart/change in mind ends the adultery?
Those who believe in the indissolubility of marriage can answer this question plainly. Those who believe that we can separate what God joins do not seem to be able to answer this question directly.
Your answer above is in contradiction to the first 1500 years of Christianity.
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/22/2010 7:16:15 PM
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gmcspice
Posts: 1345
Joined: 12/26/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RYNODOG
quote:
Partaking of Holy Communion was (and still is to some) a very big deal to the early Church. What Church leaders throughout history (PRE 16th century) have said, "you have divorced and married again, but you may come on down and receive Holy Communion while continuing to have sex with your new partner?"
quote:
So you are saying that those who are married again cannot be saved and have fellowship with God and the Holy Spirit or his word?
That is absolutely preposterous and does not Say that anywhere in the Bible.
Good afternoon gmcspice, hope you are well.
I am not sure that premise #2 is stated in the Bible but I hope you would accept it...
1) Whoever divorces his wife and marries someone else (=another)commits adultery.
Luke 16:18
18Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
2) Adultery is Committed by adulterers.
3) Adulterers will not inherit the kingdom of God.
.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Again, Jesus clearly says that marrying another is adultery. You make the claim that it is not continuous adultery. When does that adultery end?
Jesus says that if we ask we shall receive
quote:
I am not saying that someone who has divorced a one flesh covenant partner and married someone else while the one flesh covenant partner still lives "cannot be saved." I am only saying that the scripturese tell us they will not be saved if they remain in an adulterous relationship (remain an adulterer). I am still patiently waiting for you to explain how the marriage Jesus calls "adultery" in His words above ceases to be adultery without the adulterous relationship ending. It seems to be the only sexually immoral relationship you maintain should continue.
When Jesus said this he had not yet gone to the cross either.
Again, you do not understand the gospels.
quote:
You do not seem to believe that a homosexual "married" couple should remain married. You do not seem to believe that Greg should continue his affair with secretary Candy while married to Marsha.
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
Homosexuality is an ABOMINATION!!!!!!
Getting married again to opposite sex partner is NOT.
Yet it is an ABOMINATION for one to go back to your first partner if they have been married again.
So, that tells me that the divorce ends the adultery.
I am going to pray for you Bryan because you are stating people who are saved and in a second marriage are not saved!
I feel like a broken record BUT Jesus says we shall know who is saved and who is not by the fruit the produce. If that marrgae the saved poperson IS producing the fruits of the spirit, they are SAVED and they are blessed. That means THEY HAVE BEEN FORGIVEN!
Get away from the teaching of men and get into the true word of GOD.
Ben has tried and tried to tell you yet you refuse to listen.
< Message edited by gmcspice -- 8/22/2010 8:59:18 PM >
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/22/2010 8:33:15 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2408
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RYNODOG
Hello LG,
When does the adultery end? What event/change in heart/change in mind ends the adultery?
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
Greetings
Adultery always ends.... in the beginning
quote:
What event/change in heart/change in mind.... ends the adultery
= by our confession of Jesus as the Christ
It always been since the beginning
Let me move away from the witness of the prophetic word and go back to the milk,
because some folks may not understand like we do 
Jesus gave us this perfect example of deliverance
And explains...
THAT
Mat 12:43.......... "When an unclean spirit goes out of a man,(that only the Lord can cast out)
... he (the unclean spirit )goes through dry places, seeking rest, and finds none.
44 "Then he says, (the unclean spirit )
'I will return to my house from which I came.'
And when he comes, he finds it...... empty, swept, and put in order. = delivered
SO as Jesus said.... by this example
That the SIN obviously "has been" dealt with and was dealt with at the very beginning..... of Mat 12:43
Otherwise ......the house would not be found to be empty, swept, and put in order, when the unclean spirit returned.
The like manner is understood by the worg of God that speaks into pour hearing ...THAT
if that house was not found to be empty, swept, and put in order.
Then the Holy Spirit, cannot move in.... until.... that house is FIRST empty , swept , and put in order .
IF NOT>>>>
Then this is what Jesus said happens
Mat 12:45 "Then he (the unclean spirit )....goes and takes with him seven other spirits “more wicked than himself”, and “they enter” and dwell there;
and the last state of that man is ....worse than the first.
So shall it also be with this wicked generation."
Here..... in John 16:17....Jesus gives even more definition to this spiritual thing... in knowing the reason for His departing, (because.... He is taking away our sin)
John 16:7 "Nevertheless I tell you the truth. It is to your advantage .... that I go away;
for if I do not go away, the Helper will not come to you;
(because.... that would mean the... SIN REMAINS)
But if I depart, (and take our sin away)
.....I will send Him to you.
SO to compile the “full counsel of the Gospel of God”....
Jesus very clearly tells us.....that the HS whom HE sends......
THAT... in the same like manner in comparison to the unclean spirit,
that when He the HS.... or the helper comes....
“HE will find”..... that house emptied , swept , and put in order by Christ Jesus, and in turn will HELP... or keep that house emptied , swept , and put in order
Therefore, that HOUSE..... now becomes FILLED with the HS =....the “temple” of the HS
Hasn’t one ever read the ...OT?
It’s all in there...
quote:
When does the adultery end ?
In the beginning...
I hope that was a little better to understand??
I have just offered what Jesus said,
But one hasn’t offered anything yet in support of their own questions
In your O
When does the adultery end?
What event/change in heart/change in mind ends the adultery?
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed "obey My voice"
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/22/2010 10:29:23 PM
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RYNODOG
Posts: 664
Joined: 3/15/2010
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quote:
quote:
quote:
When does the adultery end ?
In the beginning...
In the beginning of what? I can be in an adulterous relationship and simply profess to take Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior and His blood makes the relationship clean?
I hope that was a little better to understand??
I have just offered what Jesus said,
But one hasn’t offered anything yet in support of their own questions
In your O
When does the adultery end?
What event/change in heart/change in mind ends the adultery?
LG
In my humble little "o"...
The adultery ends when the adulterous relationship and the desire for it ends. Repentance includes this but also includes a genuine sorrow and commitment to not do it again. Forgiveness is given upon true repentance and the asking of our Lord to be forgiven. Great examples of this are the prodigal son and Zacchaeus stories. Both sinners truly and completely repent (not simply only asking for forgiveness or simply only committing never to do it again).
Thankfully for both the prodigal son and Zacchaeus, both were welcomed back. Your new age doctrine that states that man can separate what God joins encourages spouses to close the door to a repentant spouse who committed adultery. The doctrine tells them that it is ok not to imitate Christ who is ALWAYS open to reconciliation with the truly repentant sinner.
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
< Message edited by RYNODOG -- 8/22/2010 11:04:10 PM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/22/2010 10:46:15 PM
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RYNODOG
Posts: 664
Joined: 3/15/2010
Status: offline
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quote:
Good afternoon gmcspice, hope you are well.
I am not sure that premise #2 is stated in the Bible but I hope you would accept it...
1) Whoever divorces his wife and marries someone else (=another)commits adultery.
Luke 16:18
18Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
2) Adultery is Committed by adulterers.
3) Adulterers will not inherit the kingdom of God.
.
1 Corinthians 6:9-10
9Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.
Again, Jesus clearly says that marrying another is adultery. You make the claim that it is not continuous adultery. When does that adultery end?
quote:
Jesus says that if we ask we shall receive
Hello gmcspice,
So I can simply ask Jesus to make my adulterous relationship with my secretary Candy not-adulterous? Will my wife agree?
quote:
Homosexuality is an ABOMINATION!!!!!!
Using your reasoning above...not if the homosexual asks Jesus to make it not be an abomination.
quote:
Getting married again to opposite sex partner is NOT.
Unless you consider adultery to be an abomination
Luke 16:18
18Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
Gmcspice, I am sorry to be a bit of a smart aleck here. I genuinely hate the lies that are being used to justify and rationalize divorce. These lies are tearing families apart. I hope to expose them. To shine a light on them and expose how they cannot be true. There are sincere people seeking Truth on this. Maybe someone will happen upon our diologue here and they will see where each doctrine leads
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/23/2010 7:19:35 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 3384
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
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DON'T EVER get married based just on someone's so-called prophetic word.
(not the first time or any other time)
_____________________________
Saphira went home from the hospital 11/2/11. She is VERY happy to be home. This pic was taken on her 4th birthday, just after another round of outpatient chemo.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/23/2010 7:40:23 AM
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car2nist
Posts: 3496
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From: the other side of the computer screen
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Imagine if you will, Joe Cool heard from God unmistakenly NOT to marry Susy Q. But he marries here anyhow. As soon as he says, "I do", he is putting action to a sin he has conceived in his heart. This is willful disobedience to the plans God has for him. Willful disobedience to God's direction is sin. But this is a first marriage for them both so when does it stop being sin?
This is a scenario like the adulterous one. The sinful first marriage stops being sin right at the start?
In real life I am sure we can all tell about marriage that started in sin but God blessed. First or second or even third marriages. You judge a tree by it's fruit, Good fruit comes from the Holy Spirit. Without God's help we cannot live a life of consistent Love , Joy , Peace, Patience, etc.
The men of Israel were told not to marry women outside of their faith but they did anyhow. In the OT it tells of when God told these men to leave their women. So putting the whole doctrine of divorce on a few passages and combining them with our western thought patterns does not make for the whole truth. IF it were so easily black and white we would not be still debating it, with the same augments, back and forth post after post.
_____________________________
http://car2ner.imagekind.com
"May your days be long and your hardships few".
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/23/2010 7:52:36 AM
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RYNODOG
Posts: 664
Joined: 3/15/2010
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quote:
What if God tells a divorced person through prophetic words from God that it is God's will for someone to marry in the future who is divorced according to 1 John 4:2? Also what is God tells that someone that it will not be a sin for that person to marry at that time to God or they won't marry and that it won't be a sin according to 1 John 4:2?
Do you believe this divorced person is not going to be doing right by God if the person has any x alive at that time?
What if God made the x or xs die and come back to life in their sleep and God told that person? For with God all things are possible?
God is good to His children. God can do for us His children whatever He wants. So what if God decided to do just that for someone. Who are you to judge and say that they are in sin just because all you know about the relationship is that they are divorced and their spouse is still alive now.
We must be careful not to limit God in what He can and cannot do.
Hello C.D.,
This is a dangerously powerful argument that our moral relativized, therapeutisized, self-fulfillmentized, anti-authority, autonomy-obsessed culture is extremely vulnerable to.
It is also one that anybody can use to rationalize and justify any relationship. Whether it be husband with woman other than his wife, man with man, woman with woman, man with dog.
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/23/2010 8:38:48 AM
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pd57
Posts: 166
Joined: 8/10/2010
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Showmethetruth
And when do you believe this "Lie", that marriage to another after divorce is a sin, began? Was it this century? Was it farther back when the reformers and the Catholic church debated it? Was it over a thousand years before that when Augustine and Jerome said so. Could it have been in the first century after Christ when Hermes said it. Was is when Paul said in it Romans 7, or 1 Corinthians 7? Or do you think Jesus was lying when he said it?
FirThere was consistency up to the last 500 years or so. That is when things began to change.
Lets see now................hmmmmm...what happened 500 yrs. ago or so. .................................Oh yeah! The original texts were interpreted into the English language..............words and phrases were were changed from their original meanings in the context of those people @ the time they lived in & what the practices of the day were. Those texts were distorted to appease the views of the RCC, the 'mother' church. Those WORDS changed were NOT changed consistently wherever they were used throughout................some might look @ that as possible conspiracy! ........hmmmmmm......... So yeah.............I guess I am also going with the put away does NOT mean divorce, never did theory too..............why............because the original context in which they were used does NOT indicate those people understood it thus. Secular history will prove that was the case.
Back to the 'mother' church defining the conditions of her time upto the present.....well let's just say momma has always hated anything 'Jewish' and goes against them all. SHe loves to lie, murder and keep her 'flock' in slavery, the slavery of False doctrines and perversions of the Word. ( i.e. - transubstantiation for one, the rewriting & order of the 10 Commandments for 2- eliminating the idol worship- , the abolition of Sabbath & GODS feasts replaced with babylonian - pagan mystery religions, Need I continue, really? )
Adultery is punishable by death to both involved. Sorry, no option for divorce in that instance! How can either of them be able to remarry? When the pharisees bring the adultress, caught in the very act, where was the man? Thats why Jesus replied as he did, he knew it was a BS setup. What was he writing in the sand? It causes the accusers to change their minds though doesn't it? Did you know by 2-3 witnesses a thing will be confirmed. AND if those accusing one of something FALSELY are discovered, THEY will receive the punishment {stoning in this case, i.e. DEATH } of the one falsely accused! Probably what Jesus was scribbling in the sand is my guess, just reminding them of the Law and the consequences of attempting what they were trying to do! hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm........ their plan 'backfired' on them huh?
So, why is there a 'BIll of Divorcement' required if there is No such thing as Divorce then? { not one attempt at answering this question yet!! Very interesting to say the least.....................
< Message edited by pd57 -- 8/23/2010 8:50:01 AM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/23/2010 8:56:48 AM
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gmcspice
Posts: 1345
Joined: 12/26/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RYNODOG
quote:
Good afternoon gmcspice, hope you are well.
Hello gmcspice,
So I can simply ask Jesus to make my adulterous relationship with my secretary Candy not-adulterous? Will my wife agree?
quote:
Homosexuality is an ABOMINATION!!!!!!
Using your reasoning above...not if the homosexual asks Jesus to make it not be an abomination.
This is different, Bryan. God does not make people homosexual, they CHOOSE to be.
Being homosexual goes against EVERYTHING God set for mankind to be.
That is why it is an abomination in the eyes of the Lord.
It is NOT the same.
quote:
quote:
Getting married again to opposite sex partner is NOT.
Unless you consider adultery to be an abomination
Luke 16:18
18Whosoever putteth away his wife, and marrieth another, committeth adultery: and whosoever marrieth her that is put away from her husband committeth adultery.
If it were an abomination, he would not have given a law for it.
It is an abomination for a person to return to their former spouse after they have been married again.
BUT where in the Bible is adultery listed as an abomination in the eyes of God?
quote:
Gmcspice, I am sorry to be a bit of a smart aleck here. I genuinely hate the lies that are being used to justify and rationalize divorce. These lies are tearing families apart. I hope to expose them. To shine a light on them and expose how they cannot be true. There are sincere people seeking Truth on this. Maybe someone will happen upon our diologue here and they will see where each doctrine leads
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
Bryan, God created divorce and gave us the laws for divorce. SIN is what tears families apart. SIN is what causes divorce. AND that is why God hates divorce BUT allows it.
Even though God hates it, He has done it himself. BUT he gave all a chance through Christ. Read Jeremiah chapter 3.
Until you understand the Gospel, you are not going to understand why a divorced person can be forgiven AND get married again.
Many on here have tried to explain it to you, yet because you are so indoctrinated with MAN'S view point, you will not receive it.
Do you think your view is less harsh and doesn't tear families apart? Think again.
Your view only utilizes what you want to see in scripture NOT the whole of scripture.
You think that wine and bread turn into the Body and blood of Christ when that is not true. You tell people that if they are divorced and married again they cannot partake of Christ when that is not true. It is because you look at the word of God through fleshly eyes.
As far as the last 500 years go, the RCC is a corrupt, fleshly, idol filled church. They strove to keep men in the dark about the true word of God. Why do you think they opposed the printing and distributing of the Bible into english?
They wanted FULL control to continue spreading the lies of their falsehoods and fleshliness. Now, there are some who are RCC that are Christians, but many are not.
They stopped priest from being able to marry so that they would not loose their wealth to any heirs that these priests might bare.
This is a sin in itself because the Bible clearly says we are not to tell a person NOT to get married.
This very thing caused them to have to endure fornications, strife and abominations like pedophilia.
When people were given the Bible to read, their sins were laid bare for all to see.
God says in his word that he will do it and he did it with the RCC.
If you read 1 Corinthians chapter 3 you will understand that ANYTHING man does of his own will apart from God will be tried by fire and will be found to be wood and stubble; thus it will be burned up. This includes marriage. So how do you know that divorce is not God burning up what is NOT his will for that person?
If it is a work apart from God, it will be. His word says it. If it is not of God it will not last, it will be burned up. Yet that person will still be saved. God will not allow it except for a short time to teach us it is not his will. We must be careful on how we divide God's word. If it does not line up with his WHOLE word, then it is NOT his word or will for us.
< Message edited by gmcspice -- 8/23/2010 9:17:44 AM >
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/23/2010 9:04:37 AM
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RYNODOG
Posts: 664
Joined: 3/15/2010
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quote:
quote:
Who are you to judge and say that they are in sin
quote:
Exactly.....Thats why the Gospel message is being presented... as opposed to the other- sides lack thereof
LG,
In your judgement the other side is judging, however, that is your judgement and... who are you to judge?
We most certainly need to judge actions and teachings... it has been a powerful lie put forth from the father of all lies that the only thing we are to judge is judgementalism.
Matt. 7:15-16; John 7:24; 1 Cor. 5:9; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; Phil. 3:2; 1 John
4:1; 1 Thess. 5:21.
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/23/2010 9:19:58 AM
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gmcspice
Posts: 1345
Joined: 12/26/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RYNODOG
quote:
quote:
Who are you to judge and say that they are in sin
quote:
Exactly.....That's why the Gospel message is being presented... as opposed to the other- sides lack thereof
LG,
In your judgement the other side is judging, however, that is your judgement and... who are you to judge?
We most certainly need to judge actions and teachings... it has been a powerful lie put forth from the father of all lies that the only thing we are to judge is judgementalism.
Matt. 7:15-16; John 7:24; 1 Cor. 5:9; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; Phil. 3:2; 1 John
4:1; 1 Thess. 5:21.
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
You are giving the devil too much credit.
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/23/2010 10:27:56 AM
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DaveW
Posts: 3384
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RYNODOG
This is a dangerously powerful argument that our moral relativized, therapeutisized, self-fulfillmentized, anti-authority, autonomy-obsessed culture is extremely vulnerable to.
It is also one that anybody can use to rationalize and justify any relationship. Whether it be husband with woman other than his wife, man with man, woman with woman, man with dog. I agree. Taking anything on the basis of a prophecy is dangerous, making a covenant moreso because there is no easy-out.
I am all for prophetic utterances but demons can speak thru people too and without proper discernment and meticulous vetting by mature believers, making any decisions is either extremely foolhardy or downright sinful.
No word of prophecy may contradict any scripture. If it does, it is not from God and MUST be rejected.
< Message edited by DaveW -- 8/23/2010 10:38:38 AM >
_____________________________
Saphira went home from the hospital 11/2/11. She is VERY happy to be home. This pic was taken on her 4th birthday, just after another round of outpatient chemo.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/23/2010 12:07:23 PM
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gmcspice
Posts: 1345
Joined: 12/26/2008
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: RYNODOG
This is a dangerously powerful argument that our moral relativized, therapeutisized, self-fulfillmentized, anti-authority, autonomy-obsessed culture is extremely vulnerable to.
It is also one that anybody can use to rationalize and justify any relationship. Whether it be husband with woman other than his wife, man with man, woman with woman, man with dog. I agree. Taking anything on the basis of a prophecy is dangerous, making a covenant moreso because there is no easy-out.
I am all for prophetic utterances but demons can speak thru people too and without proper discernment and meticulous vetting by mature believers, making any decisions is either extremely foolhardy or downright sinful.
No word of prophecy may contradict any scripture. If it does, it is not from God and MUST be rejected.
Amen Dave! And might I add that God would NOT tell a person to be with someone of the same sex, animal or a thing.
Scripture tells us that God knows the beginning and the end of everything. He knows if we marry someone if it will last or end in divorce. God's word also says that he works all things to the GOOD of those who believe on him and love him.
The question I ask is, what happens if we marry someone (opposite sex NOT same sex) outside of God's will?
I would appreciate anyone's answer to this question.
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/23/2010 12:07:34 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2408
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
quote:
ORIGINAL: RYNODOG
quote:
quote:
Who are you to judge and say that they are in sin
quote:
Exactly.....That's why the Gospel message is being presented... as opposed to the other- sides lack thereof
LG,
In your judgment the other side is judging, however, that is your judgment and... who are you to judge?
We most certainly need to judge actions and teachings... it has been a powerful lie put forth from the father of all lies that the only thing we are to judge is judgmental ism.
Matt. 7:15-16; John 7:24; 1 Cor. 5:9; 2 Cor. 11:13-15; Phil. 3:2; 1 John
4:1; 1 Thess. 5:21.
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
You are giving the devil too much credit.
That's because One keeps insisting it’s my judgment or my word... 
That's why I mentioned in a previous post to begin with.... that it was against my better judgment to offer up meat
quote:
RYNODOG
In your judgment the other side is judging,
No, not exactly..... I am well past that paranoia stage... there is absolutely nothing the devil has on me.
However
being that one insists that a person who has married again in Christ are not clean,
That in itself.... kind of stretches that mode of conditional contradiction a little too much... IMHO ??
I mean.....
the only way to reproof that.... is to simply offer what the Bible teaches of the Christ from the beginning to the end> Rev 1:8
He has always saved the same way..... where when spiritually discerned it is given to whom can receive it....and by that......it is clearly seen and heard as to how Jesus saved and saves us from each and every sin... all the same way... as it was the very first time.
BUT
If folks have no recognition of that,
There is really nothing that can be done falling short of an offering or a brief teaching so one/they can hear for themselves ....
Because to suggest otherwise; as your many questions... might lead to IMHO...being against the TOS to answer them
Mainly, ... (if and when the Father should introduce Himself, )
...... it could give paranoia a whole new meaning if given away from the Church setting
AND....we don’t want folks hurting themselves. ...Correct?
Therefore
(Because these things are spiritually discerned)
I can only share what I hear...
quote:
it has been a powerful lie put forth from the father of all lies that the only thing we are to judge is judgmentalism.
I am not sure what that means....
BUT
If that is what one feels...
(I can tell one a little secret)....it isn’t coming from me.
But
I believe the likeness one is looking for is mentioned in Ex 20...
It’s called bearing a false witness
That’s why I like to present the word of the Gospel in like manner when I attempt to explain my position from what I heard; otherwise ....it is simply bearing a false witness
John 8:14
quote:
In my humble little "o"...
The adultery ends when the adulterous relationship and the desire for it ends.
Repentance includes this but also includes a genuine sorrow and commitment to not do it again.
Forgiveness is given upon true repentance and the asking of our Lord to be forgiven.
I (by experience) strongly believe in the regeneration.... and... That it definitely came first,
......Which is why we all; (who in like manner believe the same.... )
We are wondering how any sin that was forgiven.... is continuous.... “After”.... the regeneration??
Titus 3:5 not on the principle of works which have been done in righteousness... “Which we had” done,
but..............
According to his own mercy he “saved us” through the washing of regeneration
(First)
And
=(in addition to that) THE
... “Renewal” of the Holy Spirit,
SO that is why IMO..... Many of us here can’t take the other side’s word for it....
That.... in the RENEWAL of the Holy Spirit,
(who is now in us ....by the regeneration at this moment in time)....will suggest to anyone that they should divorcee for any reason....
....Rather than to comply to what is written by the word of the Lord.... and by Paul’s same judgment, in both instances to the married in 1 Cor 7
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed "obey My voice"
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/23/2010 2:09:48 PM
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DaveW
Posts: 3384
Joined: 4/12/2005
From: MD suburbs of Washington DC
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
Scripture tells us that God knows the beginning and the end of everything. He knows if we marry someone if it will last or end in divorce. God's word also says that he works all things to the GOOD of those who believe on him and love him.
The question I ask is, what happens if we marry someone (opposite sex NOT same sex) outside of God's will?
I do not know any scripture directly dealing with this, but there is a story in Joshua that gives example of how to deal with covenants in general that were entered into in violation of God's expressed will:
Deu 7:1 "When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you,
Deu 7:2 and when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them.
Jos 9:3 When the inhabitants of Gibeon heard what Joshua had done to Jericho and to Ai,
Jos 9:4 they also acted craftily and set out as envoys, and took worn-out sacks on their donkeys, and wineskins worn-out and torn and mended,
Jos 9:5 and worn-out and patched sandals on their feet, and worn-out clothes on themselves; and all the bread of their provision was dry and had become crumbled.
Jos 9:6 They went to Joshua to the camp at Gilgal and said to him and to the men of Israel, "We have come from a far country; now therefore, make a covenant with us."
Jos 9:7 The men of Israel said to the Hivites, "Perhaps you are living within our land; how then shall we make a covenant with you?"
Jos 9:8 But they said to Joshua, "We are your servants." Then Joshua said to them, "Who are you and where do you come from?"
Jos 9:9 They said to him, "Your servants have come from a very far country because of the fame of the LORD your God; for we have heard the report of Him and all that He did in Egypt,
Jos 9:10 and all that He did to the two kings of the Amorites who were beyond the Jordan, to Sihon king of Heshbon and to Og king of Bashan who was at Ashtaroth.
Jos 9:11 "So our elders and all the inhabitants of our country spoke to us, saying, 'Take provisions in your hand for the journey, and go to meet them and say to them, "We are your servants; now then, make a covenant with us."'
Jos 9:12 "This our bread was warm when we took it for our provisions out of our houses on the day that we left to come to you; but now behold, it is dry and has become crumbled.
Jos 9:13 "These wineskins which we filled were new, and behold, they are torn; and these our clothes and our sandals are worn out because of the very long journey."
Jos 9:14 So the men of Israel took some of their provisions, and did not ask for the counsel of the LORD.
Jos 9:15 Joshua made peace with them and made a covenant with them, to let them live; and the leaders of the congregation swore an oath to them.
Jos 9:16 It came about at the end of three days after they had made a covenant with them, that they heard that they were neighbors and that they were living within their land.
Jos 9:17 Then the sons of Israel set out and came to their cities on the third day. Now their cities were Gibeon and Chephirah and Beeroth and Kiriath-jearim.
Jos 9:18 The sons of Israel did not strike them because the leaders of the congregation had sworn to them by the LORD the God of Israel. And the whole congregation grumbled against the leaders.
Jos 9:19 But all the leaders said to the whole congregation, "We have sworn to them by the LORD, the God of Israel, and now we cannot touch them.
Jos 9:20 "This we will do to them, even let them live, so that wrath will not be upon us for the oath which we swore to them."
Jos 9:21 The leaders said to them, "Let them live." So they became hewers of wood and drawers of water for the whole congregation, just as the leaders had spoken to them.
It would seem that God's heart is to uphold the covenant even if it is made in clear violation of God.
< Message edited by DaveW -- 8/23/2010 2:17:11 PM >
_____________________________
Saphira went home from the hospital 11/2/11. She is VERY happy to be home. This pic was taken on her 4th birthday, just after another round of outpatient chemo.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/23/2010 3:10:50 PM
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Showmethetruth
Posts: 240
Joined: 4/7/2010
Status: offline
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quote:
This is different, Bryan. God does not make people homosexual, they CHOOSE to be.
God doesn't make people divorce and marry another, they CHOOSE to do it.
quote:
BUT where in the Bible is adultery listed as an abomination in the eyes of God?
This sounds like a DEFENSE of adultery.
quote:
Even though God hates it, He has done it himself. BUT he gave all a chance through Christ. Read Jeremiah chapter 3.
Jeremiah 3:14 “Return, O backsliding children,” says the LORD; “for I am married to you"
This was AFTER the "divorce". The "divorce" didn't end the covenant they had together. They were just experiencing the negative aspects from violating it.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/23/2010 4:48:19 PM
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gmcspice
Posts: 1345
Joined: 12/26/2008
Status: offline
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[quote:
quote]ORIGINAL: Showmethetruth
quote:
This is different, Bryan. God does not make people homosexual, they CHOOSE to be.
God doesn't make people divorce and marry another, they CHOOSE to do it.
Umm, sometimes they don't have a choice. God didn't have one when he divorced Israel. He gave them a bill of divorce and let them go their own way.
Yet he sent Christ and proficied that he would send Christ so that they can return....THROUGH CHRIST! not of their own fleshly accord.
They gotta accept Christ or they can never return to God.
quote:
quote:
BUT where in the Bible is adultery listed as an abomination in the eyes of God?
This sounds like a DEFENSE of adultery.
Are you kidding me!
It is not a defense for adultery. It is a legitmate statement. The bible does not call adultery an abomination. It is sin. Which we can be forgiven of. Talk about a low blow and bearing false witness!
BUT I forgive you for it. In fact I even expected it.
I did not say God makes people divorce. I said he uses it. Please go back and re-read my post.
quote:
quote:
Even though God hates it, He has done it himself. BUT he gave all a chance through Christ. Read Jeremiah chapter 3.
Jeremiah 3:14 “Return, O backsliding children,” says the LORD; “for I am married to you"
This was AFTER the "divorce". The "divorce" didn't end the covenant they had together. They were just experiencing the negative aspects from violating it.
YEAH! He sent Christ. So, again you are wrong.
Yes it did end the covenant.
Jesus did that oh yeah he did. The New testament says he nailed it to the cross, or did you forget that, Show.
13When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions,
14having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.
15When He had disarmed the rulers and authorities, He made a public display of them, having triumphed over them through Him.
I also guess you decided to leave out the part where it speaks of God giving Israel a NEW covenent and writing the laws and such on their hearts and minds.
There is a term for what you just did; its called Cherry picking, cherry picking!
And the gospel is.....
29And he called for lights and rushed in, and trembling with fear he fell down before (Paul and Silas,
30and after he brought them out, he said, "Sirs, what must I do to be saved?"
31They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."
32And they spoke the word of the Lord to him together with all who were in his house.
33And he took them that very hour of the night and washed their wounds, and immediately he was baptized, he and all his household.
34And he brought them into his house and set food before them, and rejoiced greatly, having believed in God with (his whole household.
< Message edited by gmcspice -- 8/23/2010 5:33:44 PM >
_____________________________
To have friends, you have to be a friend!
gmcspice4GOD
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 8/23/2010 6:04:33 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2408
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: DaveW
quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
Scripture tells us that God knows the beginning and the end of everything. He knows if we marry someone if it will last or end in divorce. God's word also says that he works all things to the GOOD of those who believe on him and love him.
The question I ask is, what happens if we marry someone (opposite sex NOT same sex) outside of God's will?
I do not know any scripture directly dealing with this, but there is a story in Joshua that gives example of how to deal with covenants in general that were entered into in violation of God's expressed will:
Deu 7:1 "When the LORD your God brings you into the land where you are entering to possess it, and clears away many nations before you, the Hittites and the Girgashites and the Amorites and the Canaanites and the Perizzites and the Hivites and the Jebusites, seven nations greater and stronger than you,
Deu 7:2 and when the LORD your God delivers them before you and you defeat them, then you shall utterly destroy them. You shall make no covenant with them and show no favor to them.
Jos 9:3 When the inhabitants of Gibeon heard what Joshua had done to Jericho and to Ai,
Jos 9:4 they also acted craftily and set out as envoys, and took worn-out sacks on their donkeys, and wineskins worn-out and torn and mended,
Jos 9:5 and worn-out and patched sandals on their feet, and worn-out clothes on themselves; and all the bread of their provision was dry and had become crumbled.
Jos 9:6 They went to Joshua to the camp at Gilgal and said to him and to the men of Israel, "We have come from a far country; now therefore, make a covenant with us."
Jos 9:7 The men of Israel said to the Hivites, "Perhaps you are living within our land; how then shall we make a covenant with you?"
Jos 9:8 But they said to Joshua, "We are your servants." Then Joshua said to them, "Who are you and where do you come from?"
Jos 9:9 They said to him, "Your servants have come from a very far country because of the fame of the LORD your God; for we have heard the report of Him and all that He did in Egypt,
Jos 9:10 and all that He did to the two kings of the Amorites who were beyond the Jordan, to Sihon king of Heshbon and to Og king of Bashan who was at Ashtaroth.
Jos 9:11 "So our elders and all the inhabitants of our country spoke to us, saying, 'Take provisions in your hand for the journey, and go to meet them and say to them, "We are your servants; now then, make a covenant with us."'
Jos 9:12 "This our bread was warm when we took it for our provisions out of our houses on the day that we left to come to you; but now behold, it is dry and has become crumbled.
Jos 9:13 "These wineskins which we filled were new, and behold, they are torn; and these our clothes and our sandals are worn out because of the very long journey."
Jos 9:14 So the men of Israel took some of their provisions, and did not ask for the counsel of the LORD.
Jos 9:15 Joshua made peace with them and made a covenant with them, to let them live; and the leaders of the congregation swore an oath to them.
Jos 9:16 It came about at the end of three days after they had made a covenant with them, that they heard that they were neighbors and that they were living within their land.
Jos 9:17 Then the sons of Israel set out and came to their cities on the third day. Now their cities were Gibeon and Chephirah and Beeroth and Kiriath-jearim.
Jos 9:18 The sons of Israel did not strike them because the leaders of the congregation had sworn to them by the LORD the God of Israel. And the whole congregation grumbled against the leaders.
Jos 9:19 But all the leaders said to the whole congregation, "We have sworn to them by the LORD, the God of Israel, and now we cannot touch them.
Jos 9:20 "This we will do to them, even let them live, so that wrath will not be upon us for the oath which we swore to them."
Jos 9:21 The leaders said to them, "Let them live." So they became hewers of wood and drawers of water for the whole congregation, just as the leaders had spoken to them.
It would seem that God's heart is to uphold the covenant even if it is made in clear violation of God.
Greetings
quote:
Jos 9:19 But all the leaders said to the whole congregation, "We have sworn to them by the LORD, the God of Israel, and now we cannot touch them.
I am not sure I am following correctly,
We or man.... never formed a covenant with God, God made covenant with us...
That fact was God only had 1 convent and that was 1 people, I don’t think he cares 1 bit if their covenant was broken... even if they did 
The only way the flesh ... so to speak.... can make covenant "with God"... is through His Son
At least... for the mean time.
Mat 5:33 Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time,
Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:
34 But I say unto you, (New Subject)
Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for ... it is it God's throne: (Not ours)
35 Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool:
Neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.
36 Neither
.....shalt thou swear by thy head,
because . (Either way we look at it)
thou canst not make one hair white or black.
Even Jesus knew in that what THEY SWORE TO... in the time of old......
Even Jesus knew and how foolish that was
Because..... mans oaths are worth the words.
Mat 19:6
"So then, they are no longer two but one flesh.
Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate."
It’s the same in principle that Jesus spoke rather plainly in Matt 19 .... Therefore what God has joined together, let not man separate."
In that (because thou canst not make one hair white or black)..... In like manner..... Moses had no right to suffer them divorce, because that’s in Gods court,
It’s the same thing
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed "obey My voice"
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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