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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/27/2010 2:50:32 PM
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Showmethetruth
Posts: 240
Joined: 4/7/2010
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
However, there were two significant issues with this marriage.
1) As gmspice pointed out, they were not legally divorced and so, according to their law, it was impossible for a new marriage to take place. Josephus also writes about this fact.
2) It was against the law for a man to marry his brother's wife while his brother was still living.
Scripture is clear that we, with very few exceptions, are to be subject to laws of our country and because of that fact our laws regarding divorce do play a factor in this theological debate about divorce and remarriage (just as it did in the first century).
Regarding your point #1: Rather than be imprisoned and executed, why didn't John just say to Herod that he needed to get the technicalites dealt with and then it would be OK to be with Herodius; and once this was done simply ask for forgiveness for their previouos wrong choices and enjoy their life together? Who would die a horrific death rather than just explain a few legal points and be saved.
Also, Josephus does say, "...Herodias took upon her to confound the laws of our country, and divorced herself from her husband while he was alive, and was married to Herod [Antipas], her husband's brother by the father's side, he was tetrarch of Galilee..."
On point #2, were they subject to Levitical laws, or is that a different law?
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/27/2010 3:20:12 PM
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flowergirl7
Posts: 29
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In the form of a "possible scenario, I would like to present a question to the no remarriage apart from death people here. Anyone else can pipe in, but I want the mdr stance on this question: Please bear with me as I make up a story,
Let's say a woman is remarried to a christian. Her first husband is alive still.
Suppose the remarried couple "receive this revelation" you are preaching, and they decide they should divorce. Now for the woman..., lets say her first husband is still living without God and continuing to harm himself and live in a state of drug induced nothingness as he did in the years of marriage, the woman does not want to put herself in harms way (nochildren - all grown say) so she will not go back to the first husband, she prefers to live alone.
Then at some point in the womans life, the first husband dies,
is she then free to marry again or does she have to wait also for the second husband,
even though you say it is adultery, this 2nd marriage, it still was a vow that was made before God with the consummation of the marriage following as is the tradition of this land.
What happens to this divorce? will the woman be free or not?
Many of my questions have not been answered here because I am not part of the BIG DEBATE... I need to know...
WHAT HAPPENS AFTER--
--MARRIAGE--DIVORCE--RE-MARRIAGE--DIVORCE ???
iF YOU WANT TO TALK LAW, HERE'S WHAT i FIND...
Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
ANY ONE WANT TO CAST THE FIRST STONE???
NO ONE HAS SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THIS
< Message edited by flowergirl7 -- 7/27/2010 3:51:26 PM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/27/2010 4:34:52 PM
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flowergirl7
Posts: 29
Status: offline
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quote:
Many of my questions have not been answered here because I am not part of the BIG DEBATE... I need to know...
WHAT HAPPENS AFTER--
--MARRIAGE--DIVORCE--RE-MARRIAGE--DIVORCE ???
iF YOU WANT TO TALK LAW, HERE'S WHAT i FIND...
Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
ANY ONE WANT TO CAST THE FIRST STONE???
NO ONE HAS SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THIS
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/27/2010 4:36:28 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2408
Joined: 4/12/2005
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huckfinn327
quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
why was she astonished, huck. well she says WHY. because Jesus told her all she had done. I said Jesus gave us all we NEED TO KNOW about her... what was important. but noooo, you have to add and assume to support your strawman argument by saying Jesus doesn't tell us enough. come on dude, what more do you need?
This is no "straw-man" ... we are talking about a literal Biblical woman.
John also gave us the literal man Nathanael ... What was significant to Nathanael regarding being under a certain fig tree?
Before that Philip called thee, when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee.
Greetings
because Jesus told her all she had done... is conviction,
when thou wast under the fig tree, I saw thee... is called revelation
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed "obey My voice"
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/27/2010 4:43:13 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2408
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: flowergirl7
In the form of a "possible scenario, I would like to present a question to the no remarriage apart from death people here. Anyone else can pipe in, but I want the mdr stance on this question: Please bear with me as I make up a story,
Let's say a woman is remarried to a christian. Her first husband is alive still.
Suppose the remarried couple "receive this revelation" you are preaching, and they decide they should divorce. Now for the woman..., lets say her first husband is still living without God and continuing to harm himself and live in a state of drug induced nothingness as he did in the years of marriage, the woman does not want to put herself in harms way (nochildren - all grown say) so she will not go back to the first husband, she prefers to live alone.
Then at some point in the woman's life, the first husband dies,
is she then free to marry again or does she have to wait also for the second husband,
even though you say it is adultery, this 2nd marriage, it still was a vow that was made before God with the consummation of the marriage following as is the tradition of this land.
What happens to this divorce? will the woman be free or not?
Many of my questions have not been answered here because I am not part of the BIG DEBATE... I need to know...
WHAT HAPPENS AFTER--
--MARRIAGE--DIVORCE--RE-MARRIAGE--DIVORCE ???
if YOU WANT TO TALK LAW, HERE'S WHAT i FIND...
Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
ANY ONE WANT TO CAST THE FIRST STONE???
NO ONE HAS SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THIS
Greetings,
quote:
Many of my questions have not been answered here because I am not part of the BIG DEBATE
I guess the reason is... In general.... these questions one asks; are atypical of one who is looking for an answer... they seem to reflect more knowledge then one suggests
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed "obey My voice"
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/27/2010 5:27:02 PM
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flowergirl7
Posts: 29
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SHOULD REMARRIED PERSONS GET A DIVORCE REALLY??? i SEE SOMETHING DIFFERENT iF THE REMARRIED PERSON IS IN ADULTERY SHOULD WE NOT STONE THEM IF THEY DO NOT REPENT
Many of my questions have not been answered here because I am not part of the BIG DEBATE... I need to know...
WHAT HAPPENS AFTER--
--MARRIAGE--DIVORCE--RE-MARRIAGE--DIVORCE ???
iF YOU WANT TO TALK LAW, HERE'S WHAT i FIND...
Lev 20:10 And the man that committeth adultery with another man's wife, even he that committeth adultery with his neighbour's wife, the adulterer and the adulteress shall surely be put to death.
ANY ONE WANT TO CAST THE FIRST STONE???
NO ONE HAS SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THIS
Do we walk by faith ? Or not?
Do any of you no MDR people ever lust, ever lie, ever curse, ever get angry?, ever treat others in a non loving way????
Did you know that these sins must also be repented of.
Jas 2:8 If ye fulfil the royal law according to the scripture, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself, ye do well:
Jas 2:9 But if ye have respect to persons, ye commit sin, and are convinced of the law as transgressors.
Jas 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jas 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Jas 2:12 So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty.
Jas 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/27/2010 5:27:06 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2408
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: Showmethetruth
quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
quote:
Based on your bolded words above, do you believe that John the Baptist was wrong to tell Herod and Herodius that it was not lawful for them to be together, even though, using your viewpoints, the adulterous act had broken their previous marriage covenants and formed a new one and it would now be a sin to end their MARRIAGE, or ever ask a them to divorce the person they are married to even if their choice to marry was a reflection of their own sinfulness?
Show, do we really have to go through this AGAIN  ?
You know the reason WHY John the Baptist told them it was sin.
Herodias went against the law and filed for divorce from her husband. It was SIN to go against the law and the law back then was ....... a woman could not file for divorce. Only men could.
Sheesh!
Are you referring to civil law (a), or biblical law (b). If it is (a), then I highly doubt John the Baptist was worried about enforcing it and losing his life over it. If it is (b), you and ben say how the relationship started doesn't matter. Once there is a wedding, it is wrong to end it.
However, there were two significant issues with this marriage.
1) As gmspice pointed out, they were not legally divorced and so, according to their law, it was impossible for a new marriage to take place. Josephus also writes about this fact.
2) It was against the law for a man to marry his brother's wife while his brother was still living.
Scripture is clear that we, with very few exceptions, are to be subject to laws of our country and because of that fact our laws regarding divorce do play a factor in this theological debate about divorce and remarriage (just as it did in the first century).
Greetings
quote:
1) As gmspice pointed out, they were not legally divorced and so, according to their law, it was impossible for a new marriage to take place. Josephus also writes about this fact.
2) It was against the law for a man to marry his brother's wife while his brother was still living.
I have a question on this one also...
The parties involved, were they Jews... or in other words... did they all espouse to Judaism?
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed "obey My voice"
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/27/2010 5:32:19 PM
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flowergirl7
Posts: 29
Status: offline
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quote:
Jas 2:13 For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/27/2010 6:18:31 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 2547
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: LoyalGypsy
quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: Showmethetruth
quote:
ORIGINAL: gmcspice
quote:
Based on your bolded words above, do you believe that John the Baptist was wrong to tell Herod and Herodius that it was not lawful for them to be together, even though, using your viewpoints, the adulterous act had broken their previous marriage covenants and formed a new one and it would now be a sin to end their MARRIAGE, or ever ask a them to divorce the person they are married to even if their choice to marry was a reflection of their own sinfulness?
Show, do we really have to go through this AGAIN ?
You know the reason WHY John the Baptist told them it was sin.
Herodias went against the law and filed for divorce from her husband. It was SIN to go against the law and the law back then was ....... a woman could not file for divorce. Only men could.
Sheesh!
Are you referring to civil law (a), or biblical law (b). If it is (a), then I highly doubt John the Baptist was worried about enforcing it and losing his life over it. If it is (b), you and ben say how the relationship started doesn't matter. Once there is a wedding, it is wrong to end it.
However, there were two significant issues with this marriage.
1) As gmspice pointed out, they were not legally divorced and so, according to their law, it was impossible for a new marriage to take place. Josephus also writes about this fact.
2) It was against the law for a man to marry his brother's wife while his brother was still living.
Scripture is clear that we, with very few exceptions, are to be subject to laws of our country and because of that fact our laws regarding divorce do play a factor in this theological debate about divorce and remarriage (just as it did in the first century).
Greetings
quote:
1) As gmspice pointed out, they were not legally divorced and so, according to their law, it was impossible for a new marriage to take place. Josephus also writes about this fact.
2) It was against the law for a man to marry his brother's wife while his brother was still living.
I have a question on this one also...
The parties involved, were they Jews... or in other words... did they all espouse to Judaism?
LG
Yes, these brothers were Herod the Great's son's. Herod the Great was the builder of the Temple, and considered himself Jewish even though he was despised by his own people.
_____________________________
אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/27/2010 6:48:10 PM
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flowergirl7
Posts: 29
Status: offline
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quote:
I guess the reason is... In general.... these questions one asks; are atypical of one who is looking for an answer... they seem to reflect more knowledge then one suggests
Gypsy, do you mean my questions are atypical of one who is looking for answers?
If so, I can surely tell you that you are mistaken...yes perhaps one does have much knowledge of the word. Perhaps It all came after the remarriage.
I love how God works in sinners lives too., otherwise I would be in trouble.
However when ones knowledge and the words of death that are spoken do not ring exactly true, perhaps one would like clarification.
Perhaps one is not a scholar, just a child of God trying to decide if when one gave her life to Christ and remarried one may have stepped right into sin,
Perhaps one feel lied to now, because of being a spirit filled and led person, God has never told one to divorce her current husband.
Is one truly looking for answers YES
Is one truly ready to receive the possibility of divorce again NO
Does one want to hear it's ok YES
Does one want to follow all of God's ways, YES
I need the answer.
< Message edited by flowergirl7 -- 7/27/2010 7:07:27 PM >
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/27/2010 7:03:30 PM
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flowergirl7
Posts: 29
Status: offline
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To the no MDR followers...where does it say in the bible that a divorce is the correct answer if you indeed remarried in sin.
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/27/2010 7:04:39 PM
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benelchi
Posts: 2547
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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quote:
IS THE ANSWER FOR REMARRIAGE REALLY DIVORCE?
No, This was never the answer given in Scripture in either the OT or NT. It is a relatively new doctrinal error that developed within the last 100 years.
quote:
MY BIBLE SAYS...KILL THE ADULTERERS.
Adultery, like many other sins brings a death sentence, but Jesus by his death and resurrection paid that price for us. Jesus brings a little balance to the perspective of the Law when he addressed the woman caught in Adultery.
_____________________________
אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/27/2010 7:14:34 PM
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flowergirl7
Posts: 29
Status: offline
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quote:
quote:
MY BIBLE SAYS...KILL THE ADULTERERS.
Adultery, like many other sins brings a death sentence, but Jesus by his death and resurrection paid that price for us. Jesus brings a little balance to the perspective of the Law when he addressed the woman caught in Adultery.
Thanks benelchi, I know Jesus paid the price, I guess I was being onery...
I FEEL LIKE THAT WOMAN, AND I DON'T BELIEVE THIS CONDEMNATION IS FROM GOD. Sorry all. I am too involved with this subject right now.
You have all been great, I won't be back. Your right Gypsy ONE DOES ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER!
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/27/2010 9:10:14 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2408
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: flowergirl7
quote:
quote:
MY BIBLE SAYS...KILL THE ADULTERERS.
Adultery, like many other sins brings a death sentence, but Jesus by his death and resurrection paid that price for us. Jesus brings a little balance to the perspective of the Law when he addressed the woman caught in Adultery.
Thanks benelchi, I know Jesus paid the price, I guess I was being onery...
I FEEL LIKE THAT WOMAN, AND I DON'T BELIEVE THIS CONDEMNATION IS FROM GOD. Sorry all. I am too involved with this subject right now.
You have all been great, I won't be back. Your right Gypsy ONE DOES ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER!
Sorry I couldn't be of help... in general ...When one gets caught-up in debates, they should have the stomach for it....otherwise if I was to continue...it would lean against the TOS...
I mean even Paul knew when to leave well enough alone...
Phl 2:12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence 'only, but now.... much more in my absence,
THERFORE
work out your\OUR own salvation with fear and trembling.
Phl 2:13 For it is God >(not any of us here in this thread)> which worketh in you...
both "to will" and to do of his good pleasure.
So basically what Paul is saying there in verse 13.... is that one needs to be willing to hear the WHOLE truth, ...God reveals the whole truth and when it is heard... its easier to do his "good" pleasure, and when we do His good pleasure, we generally stop sinning.
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed "obey My voice"
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/28/2010 7:11:03 AM
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RYNODOG
Posts: 664
Joined: 3/15/2010
Status: offline
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quote:
In the form of a "possible scenario, I would like to present a question to the no remarriage apart from death people here. Anyone else can pipe in, but I want the mdr stance on this question: Please bear with me as I make up a story,
Let's say a woman is remarried to a christian. Her first husband is alive still.
Suppose the remarried couple "receive this revelation" you are preaching, and they decide they should divorce. Now for the woman..., lets say her first husband is still living without God and continuing to harm himself and live in a state of drug induced nothingness as he did in the years of marriage, the woman does not want to put herself in harms way (nochildren - all grown say) so she will not go back to the first husband, she prefers to live alone.
Then at some point in the womans life, the first husband dies,
is she then free to marry again or does she have to wait also for the second husband,
even though you say it is adultery, this 2nd marriage, it still was a vow that was made before God with the consummation of the marriage following as is the tradition of this land.
What happens to this divorce? will the woman be free or not?
Hello flowergirl,
For almost 2000 years of the Church the short answer is yes (althoUgh there were a couple early Church fathers who believed the marriage bond survived death - contradicting scripture.)
1 Corinthians 7:39 (King James Version)
39The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
The death of her husband frees her to marry another. The second relationship, though the state views it as a legitimate marriage, was no more of a marriage than Bob and Tom marrying each other at a church in Iowa, or Matilda marrying Fido (http://www.marryyourpet.com/). Those relationships may appear on the surface to have all the fruit a branch on a vine can grow... Matilda can get her certificate and be happier than a lark with a worm... but they are not marriages.
Bryan
LOVE SO AMAZING
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/28/2010 9:05:38 AM
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huckfinn327
Posts: 918
Joined: 1/30/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
Scripture is clear that we, with very few exceptions, are to be subject to laws of our country and because of that fact our laws regarding divorce do play a factor in this theological debate about divorce and remarriage (just as it did in the first century).
benelchi writes: "Our laws regarding divorce."
JUST FOR THE RECORD:
"Our laws": can ONLY mean civil laws regarding divorce.
The Christian has NO laws regarding divorce that we must obey.
We may be the victim of civil action and its consequences.
We can never be the "plaintif."
We can only be the "defendant."
Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
Mat 5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Mat 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
_____________________________
NO-REMARRIAGE-THIS-SIDE-OF-DEATH .... JESUS TAUGHT CREATION MARRIAGE
www.jesusremarriagekeller.com
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/28/2010 9:25:59 AM
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benelchi
Posts: 2547
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: RYNODOG
quote:
In the form of a "possible scenario, I would like to present a question to the no remarriage apart from death people here. Anyone else can pipe in, but I want the mdr stance on this question: Please bear with me as I make up a story,
Let's say a woman is remarried to a christian. Her first husband is alive still.
Suppose the remarried couple "receive this revelation" you are preaching, and they decide they should divorce. Now for the woman..., lets say her first husband is still living without God and continuing to harm himself and live in a state of drug induced nothingness as he did in the years of marriage, the woman does not want to put herself in harms way (nochildren - all grown say) so she will not go back to the first husband, she prefers to live alone.
Then at some point in the womans life, the first husband dies,
is she then free to marry again or does she have to wait also for the second husband,
even though you say it is adultery, this 2nd marriage, it still was a vow that was made before God with the consummation of the marriage following as is the tradition of this land.
What happens to this divorce? will the woman be free or not?
Hello flowergirl,
For almost 2000 years of the Church the short answer is yes (althoUgh there were a couple early Church fathers who believed the marriage bond survived death - contradicting scripture.)
1 Corinthians 7:39 (King James Version)
39The wife is bound by the law as long as her husband liveth; but if her husband be dead, she is at liberty to be married to whom she will; only in the Lord.
The death of her husband frees her to marry another. The second relationship, though the state views it as a legitimate marriage, was no more of a marriage than Bob and Tom marrying each other at a church in Iowa, or Matilda marrying Fido (http://www.marryyourpet.com/). Those relationships may appear on the surface to have all the fruit a branch on a vine can grow... Matilda can get her certificate and be happier than a lark with a worm... but they are not marriages.
One of the frustrations I have with the MDR movement is that those involved continually misrepresent the early church position in order to try and add weight to their position. The early church NEVER supported the idea that divorce was even a possibility for dealing with remarriages that had taken place; even for marriages that some leaders deemed to be sinful. And they NEVER permitted a spouse to return to a former spouse after an intervening remarriage. In other words, the early church NEVER endorsed the most heretical aspects of the MDR movements doctrine.
Here are some quotes from the Early church:
But perhaps some Jewish man of those who dare to oppose the teaching of our Saviour will say, that when Jesus said, "Whosoever shall put away his own wife, saving for the cause of fornication, maketh her an adulteress," He also gave permission to put away a wife like as well as Moses did, who was said by Him to have given laws for the hardness of heart of the people, and will hold that the saying, "Because he found in her an unseemly thing," is to be reckoned as the same as fornication on account of which with good cause a wife could be cast away from her husband. But to him it must be said that, if she who committed adultery was according to the law to be stoned, clearly it is not in this sense that the unseemly thing is to be understood. For it is not necessary for adultery or any such great indecency to write a bill of divorcement and give it into the hands of the wife; but indeed perhaps Moses called every sin an unseemly thing, on the discovery of which by the husband in the wife, as not finding favour in the eyes of her husband, the bill of divorcement is written, and the wife is sent away from the house of her husband; "but from the beginning it hath not been so." After this our Saviour says, not at all permitting the dissolution of marriages for any other sin than fornication alone, when detected in the wife, "Whosoever shall put away his own wife, saving for the cause of fornication, maketh her an adulteress." But it might be a subject for inquiry if on this account He hinders any one putting away a wife, unless she be caught in fornication, for any other reason, as for example for poisoning, or for the destruction during the absence of her husband from home of an infant born to them, or for any form of murder whatsoever. And further, if she were found despoiling and pillaging the house of her husband, though she was not guilty of fornication, one might ask if he would with reason cast away such an one, seeing that the Saviour forbids any one to put away his own wife saving for the cause of fornication. In either case there appears to be something monstrous, whether it be really monstrous, I do not know; for to endure sins of such heinousness which seem to be worse than adultery or fornication, will appear to be irrational; but again on the other hand to act contrary to the design of the teaching of the Saviour, every one would acknowledge to be impious. I wonder therefore why He did not say, Let no one put away his own wife saving for the cause of fornication, but says, "Whosoever shall put away his own wife, saving for the cause of fornication, maketh her an adulteress." For confessedly he who puts away his wife when she is not a fornicator, makes her an adulteress, so far as it lies with him, for if, "when the husband is living she shall be called an adulteress if she be joined to another man;" and when by putting her away, he gives to her the excuse of a second marriage, very plainly in this way he makes her an adulteress. But as to whether her being caught in the act of poisoning or committing murder, furnishes any defence of his dismissal of her, you can inquire yourselves; for the husband can also in other ways than by putting her away cause his own wife to commit adultery; as, for example, allowing her to do what she wishes beyond what is fitting, and stooping to friendship with what men she wishes, for often from the simplicity of husbands such false steps happen to wives; but whether there is a ground of defence or not for such husbands in the case of such false steps, you will inquire carefully, and deliver your opinion also in regard to the difficult questions raised by us on the passage. And even he who withholds himself from his wife makes her oftentimes to be an adulteress when he does not satisfy her desires, even though he does so under the appearance of greater gravity and self-control. And perhaps this man is more culpable who, so far as it rests with him, makes her an adulteress when he does not satisfy her desires than he who, for other reason than fornication, has sent her away,--for poisoning or murder or any of the most grievous sins.
Also from the same commentary on Mathew Origin said this:
But now contrary to what was written, some even of the rulers of the church have permitted a woman to marry, even when her husband was living, doing contrary to what was written, where it is said, "A wife is bound for so long time as her husband liveth," and "So then if while her husband liveth, she shall be joined to another man she shall be called an adulteress," not indeed altogether without reason, for it is probable this concession was permitted in comparison with worse things, contrary to what was from the beginning ordained by law, and written.
Note that in this passage that Origin, while expressing his disagreement, acknowledges that others leaders in the early church disagreed with him about whether remarriage was permitted. Additionally, he states that likely reason that other leaders were permitting remarriage was that the alternative to permitting remarriage would have been worse.
"The Saviour then commanded, 'What God hath joined together, let not man put asunder,' but man wishes to put asunder what God hath joined together, when, "falling away from the sound faith, giving heed to seducing spirits and doctrines of demons, through the hypocrisy of men that speak lies, branded in their own conscience as with a hot iron, forbidding," not only to commit fornication, but 'to marry,' he dissolves even those who had been before joined together by the providence of God. Let these things then be said, keeping in view what is expressly said concerning the male and the female, and the man and the woman, as the Saviour taught in the answer to the Pharisees.", Origen.
Note that Origen here acknowledges that the original marriage covenant is irrevocably broken, something that the MDR people tell us cannot happen. Origen did not support the "indissoluble marriage doctrine" taught by the MDR movement.
"Now, when we saw that some who have been married twice may be much better than those who have been married once, we were perplexed why Paul does not at all permit those who have been twice married to be appointed to ecclesiastical dignities; for also it seemed to me that such a thing was worthy of examination, as it was possible that a man, who had been unfortunate in two marriages, and had lost his second wife while he was yet young, might have lived for the rest of his years up to old age in the greatest self-control and chastity. Who, then, would not naturally be perplexed why at all, when a ruler of the church is being sought for, we do not appoint such a man, though he has been twice married, because of the expressions about marriage, but lay hold of the man who has been once married as our ruler, even if he chance to have lived to old age with his wife, and sometimes may not have been disciplined in chastity and temperance? But, from what is said in the law about the bill of divorcement, I reflect whether, seeing that the bishop and the presbyter and the deacon are a symbol of things that truly exist in accordance with these names, he wished to appoint those who were figuratively once married, in order that he who is able to give attention to the matter, may find out from the spiritual law the one who was unworthy of ecclesiastical rule, whose soul did not find favour in the eyes of her husband because there had been found in her an unseemly thing, and she had become worthy of the bill of divorcement; for such a soul, having dwelt along with a second husband, and having been hated by such an one, can no longer, after the second bill of divorcement, return to her former husband. It is likely, therefore, also, that other arguments will be found by those who are wiser than we, and have more ability to see into such things, whether in the law about the bill of divorcement, or in the apostolic writings which prohibit those who have been twice married from ruling over the church or being preferred to preside over it. But, until something shall be found that is better and able by the excessive brilliancy of the light of knowledge to cast into the shade what we have uttered, we have said the things which have occurred to us in regard to the passages." Origen
And here Origen acknowledges that Scripture teaches that a spouse who has remarried cannot return to their former spouse while explaining why he believes that a person who has remarried cannot serve in leadership. Note that Origen says "We were perplexed why Paul does not permit those twice married to be appointed to ecclesiastical dignities", If Origen believed that all second marriages were continuous adultery, it is hard to imagine how he could have recognized that some who had been in second marriages could be "better than those who have been married once"
"He goes not on to what lies before Him, until He have well cleared out the former topics. For, lo, He shows us yet another kind of adultery. And what is this? There was an ancient law made,7 that he who hated his wife, for whatever kind of cause, should not be forbidden to cast her out, and to bring home another instead of her. The law however did not command him simply to do this, but after giving the woman a writing of divorcement, that it might not be in her power to return to him again; that so at least the figure of the marriage might remain. For if He had not enjoined this, but it were lawful first to cast her out, and take another, then afterwards to take back the former, the confusion was sure to be great, all men continually taking each others' wives; and the matter thenceforth would have been direct adultery. With a view to this, He devised, as no small mitigation, the writing of divorcement." Chrysostom
Here Chrysostom argues that allowing a spouse who had remarried to return to their former spouse would be a direct act of adultery.
"What I am about to say may sound novel but after all it is not new but old for it is supported by the witness of the old testament. If she leaves her second husband and desires to be reconciled with her first, she cannot be so now; for it is written in Deuteronomy: “When a man hath taken a wife, and married her, and it come to pass that she find no favour in his eyes, because he hath found some uncleanness in her; then let him write her a bill of divorcement, and give it in her hand, and send her out of his house. And when she is departed out of his house, she may go and be another man’s wife. And if the latter husband hate her, and write her a bill of divorcement and giveth it in her hand, and sendeth her out of his house; or if the latter husband die which took her to be his wife; her former husband, which sent her away may not take her again to be his wife, after that she is defiled; for that is abomination before the Lord: and thou shalt not cause the land to sin, which the Lord thy God giveth thee for an inheritance.” Wherefore, I beseech you, do your best to comfort her and to urge her to seek salvation. Diseased flesh calls for the knife and the searing-iron. The wound is to blame and not the healing art, if with a cruelty that is really kindness a physician to spare does not spare, and to be merciful is cruel." Jerome
Here Jerome acknowledges the early churches belief that a former spouse cannot return after they have remarried.
Again, no one disputes that the early church almost unanimously rejected remarriage; however, what is clear from their writing is that they were far more compassionate towards those who had remarried (even though they believed the remarriage was sinful), and they never advocated for divorce as a means or sign of repentance, and never permitted a remarried spouse to return to a former spouse (an act that they acknowledged was itself sinful).
Ask yourself this, if those pushing this false doctrine continually demonstrate dishonesty in how they represent the beliefs of the early church, dishonesty in how the present Scripture, etc... Why believe them when the teach this false doctrine?
< Message edited by benelchi -- 7/28/2010 9:32:38 AM >
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אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/28/2010 9:27:01 AM
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huckfinn327
Posts: 918
Joined: 1/30/2007
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quote:
(benelchi writes) However, there were two significant issues with this marriage.
1) As gmspice pointed out, they were not legally divorced and so, according to their law, it was impossible for a new marriage to take place. Josephus also writes about this fact.
2) It was against the law for a man to marry his brother's wife while his brother was still living.
Scripture is clear that we, with very few exceptions, are to be subject to laws of our country and because of that fact our laws regarding divorce do play a factor in this theological debate about divorce and remarriage (just as it did in the first century).
The debauchery of Herod and Herodias is greater then just your opinion that she did not have a Jewish "legal divorce."
R.C.H. Lenski reports:
Herod's crime was a public outrage. The woman Herodias had first married her own father's brother and then had run away and lived with the half-brother of her husband, who thus was also her half-uncle and already had a wife. Two marriages were disrupted, and the new union was not a marriage. It was plain adultery and within the forbiden degrees of consanguinity, Josephus charges Herodias with the intention of confounding her countgry's institutions. No wonder John raised his voice although Herod was his ruler. "To have her" = to have as a wife.[/i] (Mt. 14:4 commentary)
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NO-REMARRIAGE-THIS-SIDE-OF-DEATH .... JESUS TAUGHT CREATION MARRIAGE
www.jesusremarriagekeller.com
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/28/2010 9:40:56 AM
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benelchi
Posts: 2547
Joined: 9/14/2007
From: California
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huckfinn327
quote:
(benelchi writes) However, there were two significant issues with this marriage.
1) As gmspice pointed out, they were not legally divorced and so, according to their law, it was impossible for a new marriage to take place. Josephus also writes about this fact.
2) It was against the law for a man to marry his brother's wife while his brother was still living.
Scripture is clear that we, with very few exceptions, are to be subject to laws of our country and because of that fact our laws regarding divorce do play a factor in this theological debate about divorce and remarriage (just as it did in the first century).
The debauchery of Herod and Herodias is greater then just your opinion that she did not have a Jewish "legal divorce."
R.C.H. Lenski reports:
Herod's crime was a public outrage. The woman Herodias had first married her own father's brother and then had run away and lived with the half-brother of her husband, who thus was also her half-uncle and already had a wife. Two marriages were disrupted, and the new union was not a marriage. It was plain adultery and within the forbiden degrees of consanguinity, Josephus charges Herodias with the intention of confounding her countgry's institutions. No wonder John raised his voice although Herod was his ruler. "To have her" = to have as a wife.[/i] (Mt. 14:4 commentary)
Did you even bother to read my post before responding in this way? I provided two reasons, and only one dealt with the illegality of the divorce itself, the other dealt with the illegality of the marriage. As for the issue you raised about intermarriage, it was a common and, unfortunately, accepted practice within that culture. The quote you provided was a reflection on this situation by a writer centuries later, no one contemporary with this situation raised this issue.
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אשת־חיל מי ימצא ורחק מפנינים מכרה
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/28/2010 10:40:26 AM
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Showmethetruth
Posts: 240
Joined: 4/7/2010
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quote:
Do any of you no MDR people ever lust, ever lie, ever curse, ever get angry?, ever treat others in a non loving way????
Yes, of course we all do (The word "we" throughout this response is not just "no MDR people", but I am referring to Christians as a whole). You can even see it in this thread. And if we do, hopefully the Holy Spirit shows us that we have done so. When that happens, we repent and ask forgiveness both from God and from anyone we may have wronged or offended. Hopefully, you will see that in this thread, too.
A big difference is that (hopefully) we don't make living that way our lifestyle. We do not find reasons to commit those sins. We don't justify them and continue in them with the attitude that it is OK to do them because Jesus died for us to do it and He took the punishment. If we truly love Jesus, and want to follow him, we will use the grace He gives us to live in a way that honors Him.
quote:
I STILL NEED TO KNOW. IS THE ANSWER FOR REMARRIAGE REALLY DIVORCE? MY BIBLE SAYS...KILL THE ADULTERERS.
What I have tried to know is whether remarriage is a marriage approved by God and secured by a covenant. What I read in the bible, when I remember that God is not primarily concerned with my earthly happiness, but more concerned with conforming my views to agree with His views, I see that Jesus calls remarriage not a new covenant, but adultery (it makes sense that the New Covenant could only take place after Jesus's death ended the Old Covenant). I see that Paul says there are two options after divorce - reconciliation or remaining single. I see that Paul says marrying another while the original spouse is living is adultery. I come to the conclusion that remarriage is not approved by God. He calls it a sin. If it is a sin, He will have no part in it. If He has no part in it, I don't expect Him to confirm it as a covenant with Him. I read that our forgiveness of others should be modeled after His forgiveness of us. Have we been unfaithful to God? Yes. Does He put us away forever and close to door to forgiveness, even if it is years of unfaithfulness before we return? No. Would I want Him to say, if I had committed that unfaithfulness for years, "I forgive you, I love you, but we cannot be reconciled". An emphatic PLEASE NO! Because of all these and more, I do not believe divorce and remarriage is acceptable to God. If I find myself in a situation God Callas a sin, I believe I should leave that situation and not find ways to justify it.
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JUDGEMENT OR MERCY????? Is it mercy to not point out what one believes is sin in another's life? I don't mean in a judgemental manner, but done lovingly and with a hope to lead the other away from that sin. If a child is headed for danger, do we as parents withhold our warning and correction because we don't want to seem judgmental? Is our correction done out of love and mercy for their overall well being, and not based on whether or not they are happy about it?
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/28/2010 10:50:55 AM
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huckfinn327
Posts: 918
Joined: 1/30/2007
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quote:
(Benelci's Complaint) One of the frustrations I have with the MDR movement is that those involved continually misrepresent the early church position in order to try and add weight to their position. The early church NEVER supported the idea that divorce was even a possibility for dealing with remarriages that had taken place; even for marriages that some leaders deemed to be sinful. And they NEVER permitted a spouse to return to a former spouse after an intervening remarriage. In other words, the early church NEVER endorsed the most heretical aspects of the MDR movements doctrine.
Again you begin with an accusation: “in order to add weight to their position; and the MDR Movement doctrine is Heresy”. Thus you are saying our “motive” is dishonest and we are Heretics; very serious accusations. The accusation is a trademark of benelchi. Are they necces .... .....?
What does Benelchi believe?
Benelchi really believes that Jesus taught that marriage is DISSOLUBLE. Hmmmm ...
That appears to be a position that is directly against Christ.
Now that is a dangerous place to be.
Jesus said: Have ye not read, that he which made them at the beginning made them male and female,
Mat 19:5 And said, For this cause shall a man leave father and mother, and shall cleave to his wife: and they twain shall be one flesh?
Mat 19:6 Wherefore they are no more twain, but one flesh. What therefore God hath joined together, let not man put asunder.
Benelchi believes that Deut. 24:1-4 is the absolute Law of God in the Chruch age.
PLEASE ... PLEASE ... My dear friend ... REMEMBER Who it was that said:
Mat 19:7 They say unto him, Why did Moses then command to give a writing of divorcement, and to put her away?
Mat 19:8 He saith unto them, Moses because of the hardness of your hearts suffered you to put away your wives: but from the beginning it was not so.
Mar 10:3 And he answered and said unto them, What did Moses command you?
Mar 10:4 And they said, Moses suffered to write a bill of divorcement, and to put her away.
The MDR movement believes that Jesus taught that marriage is INDISSOLUBLE.
Benelchi makes ONLY ONE “legal complaint”: in his accusation that THE MDR believer is a HERETIC.
Benelchi’s Complaint of HERESY: The MDR Believes supports the idea of divorce for dealing with remarriages that had taken place; even for marriages that some leaders have deemed sinful.
Dear Reader: Remember that the Early Churches UNANIMOUS position for the first 300 years was that REMARRIAGE WAS SINFUL. That is a long time for the church to hold to such a SEVERE doctrine. That was an absolute Act of GOD. God in His graciousness caused men to FEAR His words: “What, therefore GOD hath joined together LET NOT MAN BUT ASUNDER.” Jesus’ literal speech with these powerful words created this great phenomena.
G.J.Wenham reports: “In the first three centuries of the Christian era, not a single writer supposes that the New Testament allows for remarriage after divorce.
The Early Church “struggled” with what they should do regarding those who were living in what they reported as “adulterous-marriages”.
In some cases the state did not even permit divorce is such cases. The church labored to separate these adulterous unions:
Here is some evidence of for the court :
Augustine clearly saw divorce and a second-marriage-this-side-of-death as living in the sin of adultery ... he called it an adulterous-marriage. He writes:
A woman is bound as long as her husband lives,' whether he be adulterous or chaste. She is guilty of adultery if she remarries. The husband also is bound as long as his wife lives, whether she be adulterous or chaste, and he, too, commits adultery if he marries another. The bond in never dissolved at any time, even if a spouse is separated by divorce from a chaste partner. Mush less is the bond dissolved if she commits adultery before the separation. From this we may know that she is freed only by the death of her husband, whose death is reckoned, not from his lapse into adultery, but from his departure from the body. (Adulterous-Marriages pg. 118).
Some believe that since men like Augustine did not specifically call for a legal "divorce" of the adulterous-marriage that he and other early churchmen approved of the adulterous-union. This is not true. His treatise, "Adulterous-Marriages" reveals many important facts when discussing the early church position on remarriage. One point he brings out is that regarding the legal dissolution of the state remarriage is that the dissolution was "forbidden by state law":
(Augustine writes) Regarding the dissolution of the adulterous-marriage Augustine writes: "No one compels it, because, perchance, some law of this world forbids it, according to the manner of teh earthly city, wherein the removal of sin is not reckoned through the sacred Blood. Therefore, let continence be undertaken because no law prohibits it." (Adulterous Remarriage pg. 111).
Baptism, Penance, and Continence (marriage unions without sexual intercourse) were major doctrines with Augustine regarding sin and remarriage was adultery.
(For example)
I think that not only those other catechumens (not baptized converts), but also the ones who are joined to living spouses and persist in adulterous unions -- although we do not admit them to baptism when they are sound in body, yet, if they have fallen critically ill and are not able to answer for themselves, I say that I think they are to be baptized, so that even this sin, along with the rest, may be cleansed by the laver of regeneration. For, who knows whether they had perhaps decided to persevere in the unlawful pleasure of an adulterous union until baptism?
Obviously Augustine wanted the catechumens to "put away the remarriage" prior to baptism.
Since marriage is indissoluble it is therefore invincible.
INVINCIBLE MEANS INCAPABLE OF BEING CONQUERED
DIVORCE CANNOT DISSOLVE MARRIAGE
< Message edited by huckfinn327 -- 7/28/2010 11:15:09 AM >
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NO-REMARRIAGE-THIS-SIDE-OF-DEATH .... JESUS TAUGHT CREATION MARRIAGE
www.jesusremarriagekeller.com
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/28/2010 11:01:39 AM
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huckfinn327
Posts: 918
Joined: 1/30/2007
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: benelchi
quote:
ORIGINAL: huckfinn327
quote:
(benelchi writes) However, there were two significant issues with this marriage.
1) As gmspice pointed out, they were not legally divorced and so, according to their law, it was impossible for a new marriage to take place. Josephus also writes about this fact.
2) It was against the law for a man to marry his brother's wife while his brother was still living.
Scripture is clear that we, with very few exceptions, are to be subject to laws of our country and because of that fact our laws regarding divorce do play a factor in this theological debate about divorce and remarriage (just as it did in the first century).
The debauchery of Herod and Herodias is greater then just your opinion that she did not have a Jewish "legal divorce."
R.C.H. Lenski reports:
Herod's crime was a public outrage. The woman Herodias had first married her own father's brother and then had run away and lived with the half-brother of her husband, who thus was also her half-uncle and already had a wife. Two marriages were disrupted, and the new union was not a marriage. It was plain adultery and within the forbiden degrees of consanguinity, Josephus charges Herodias with the intention of confounding her countgry's institutions. No wonder John raised his voice although Herod was his ruler. "To have her" = to have as a wife.[/i] (Mt. 14:4 commentary)
Did you even bother to read my post before responding in this way? I provided two reasons, and only one dealt with the illegality of the divorce itself, the other dealt with the illegality of the marriage. As for the issue you raised about intermarriage, it was a common and, unfortunately, accepted practice within that culture. The quote you provided was a reflection on this situation by a writer centuries later, no one contemporary with this situation raised this issue.
My comment was related to the very first marriage that Lenski reports where Herodias was married to "her own fathers brother" ... this was clearly incestous ... to which you and gmspice refer to as not legally divorced.
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NO-REMARRIAGE-THIS-SIDE-OF-DEATH .... JESUS TAUGHT CREATION MARRIAGE
www.jesusremarriagekeller.com
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/28/2010 11:22:12 AM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2408
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: huckfinn327
quote:
Scripture is clear that we, with very few exceptions, are to be subject to laws of our country and because of that fact our laws regarding divorce do play a factor in this theological debate about divorce and remarriage (just as it did in the first century).
benelchi writes: "Our laws regarding divorce."
JUST FOR THE RECORD:
"Our laws": can ONLY mean civil laws regarding divorce.
The Christian has NO laws regarding divorce that we must obey.
We may be the victim of civil action and its consequences.
We can never be the "plaintiff."
We can only be the "defendant."
Mat 5:38 Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth:
Mat 5:39 But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also.
Mat 5:40 And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also.
Mat 5:41 And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.
Mat 5:42 Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away.
Mat 5:43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;
Mat 5:45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.
Greetings
quote:
The Christian has NO laws regarding divorce that we must obey.
Truthfully we don't
1Cr 6:12 All things are lawful unto me, but all things are not expedient: all things are lawful for me,
KEY IS ....but I will not be brought under the power of any.
OK so then being brought under the power of any... is a spiritual issue,
What does civil law have to do with the things of the spirit?
LG
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Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed "obey My voice"
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - 7/28/2010 1:06:35 PM
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LoyalGypsy
Posts: 2408
Joined: 4/12/2005
Status: offline
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Showmethetruth
quote:
Do any of you no MDR people ever lust, ever lie, ever curse, ever get angry?, ever treat others in a non loving way????
Yes, of course we all do (The word "we" throughout this response is not just "no MDR people", but I am referring to Christians as a whole). You can even see it in this thread. And if we do, hopefully the Holy Spirit shows us that we have done so. When that happens, we repent and ask forgiveness both from God and from anyone we may have wronged or offended. Hopefully, you will see that in this thread, too.
A big difference is that (hopefully) we don't make living that way our lifestyle. We do not find reasons to commit those sins. We don't justify them and continue in them with the attitude that it is OK to do them because Jesus died for us to do it and He took the punishment. If we truly love Jesus, and want to follow him, we will use the grace He gives us to live in a way that honors Him.
quote:
I STILL NEED TO KNOW. IS THE ANSWER FOR REMARRIAGE REALLY DIVORCE? MY BIBLE SAYS...KILL THE ADULTERERS.
What I have tried to know is whether remarriage is a marriage approved by God and secured by a covenant. What I read in the bible, when I remember that God is not primarily concerned with my earthly happiness, but more concerned with conforming my views to agree with His views, I see that Jesus calls remarriage not a new covenant, but adultery (it makes sense that the New Covenant could only take place after Jesus’ death ended the Old Covenant).
quote:
What I have tried to know is whether remarriage is a marriage approved by God and secured by a covenant.
Greetings
quote:
I STILL NEED TO KNOW. IS THE ANSWER FOR REMARRIAGE REALLY DIVORCE? MY BIBLE SAYS...KILL THE ADULTERERS
What I read in the bible, when I remember that God is not primarily concerned with my earthly happiness,
The Bible says out earthly happiness is in Equivalent as our soul prospers 3 John 1:2 , Mic 6:7
quote:
I STILL NEED TO KNOW. IS THE ANSWER FOR REMARRIAGE REALLY DIVORCE? MY BIBLE SAYS...KILL THE ADULTERERS.
What I have tried to know is whether remarriage is a marriage approved by God and secured by a covenant.
A Biblical opinion was offered up here in some explanation
RE: Remarriage After Divorce - One Stop Thread - #4965311
Did one take notice to what Ben offered in the writing from the early Church, did anyone take notice that the word remarriage was never used?
The problem is ...soul wise... and in our HEARING....that even though we attribute the word remarriage in our understanding to be in the likeness of marriage or the 2nd marriage.... and use it blatantly among the saved when defining marriage after a divorce,
The truth is it is not... In terms of the prophecy of the book...it WILL lead one off the prophetic path scripturally
... The term its self is misleading
If we look at the Hebrew Book as a whole in their beliefs from the beginning to the end with our spiritual eyes, the very first marriage was “conceived” in disobedience, = covenant.... and thereafter the reiteration thereof is typically called... of the world,
And this truth carried on throughout the OT and is what inspired Jesus to say to...them...(his brethren) in like manner in the contexts of John 3
John 3:16 "For God so loved “the world”......... that He gave His only begotten Son,
That........ Whoever “believes in... “Him” >(as opposed to the serpent) or mentioned as the “voice” of Adams wife) as instructed by Moses Him you shall hear! Deu 18:15)
should not perish>=. (Surely die)
But... have everlasting=>life.
So when Jesus fulfilled the “righteous” requirements of the law... by being obedient,
(Whereby the law is that which was given to us to reveal that sin),
Righteousness.... is now our inheritance
The bond to the first marriage conceived in “disobedience” was broken
As Paul reiterated the same between marriage, to an unbeliever in 1 Cor 7
Remarriage Biblically.... is going back to >the first, >the world >or disobedience and is just as much given to covenant since the beginning.
Psa 112:6 Surely he shall not be moved for ever: the righteous shall be “in everlasting” remembrance.
Jer 20:11 But the LORD is with me as a mighty terrible one:
Therefore
My persecutors shall stumble, and they shall not prevail:
they shall be greatly ashamed; for they shall not prosper: “their everlasting confusion”
... “shall never be forgotten.
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
quote:
What I have tried to know is whether remarriage is a marriage approved by God and secured by a covenant.
Just as marriage is an everlasting covenant... so is bibical remarriage
I cannot stress the fact enough and it is not for me to tell someone else what to hear or believe or what word to use,
But it would open up tons of scripture in like doctrinal manner... if we understood the words we use and keep them in context
LG
_____________________________
Ex 19:5 Now therefore, if you will indeed "obey My voice"
...So the Persians ask that the 300 drop their arms. Leonidas responds; "Persians! Come and get them!"
300 The Movie
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