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RE: I don't believe prayer actually works - 7/25/2010 9:37:13 PM
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jn1010lf
Posts: 686
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Hello rybak303
Have you thought of it this way. Prayer is actually talking to God. Since you are not a Christian then you've not been born of the Spirit of God. In other words, you do not know God. Since you have no way of talking to Him, then prayer, for you, will not work.
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RE: I don't believe prayer actually works - 7/25/2010 11:20:26 PM
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sen10tious
Posts: 235
Joined: 4/11/2005
From: Southern US
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There are so many things wrong with that passage that I barely know where to begin.
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“There is no evidence that prayer, like Native American rain dances, has any effect on outcomes in the natural world. Well, exactly WHO were the dances being performed to? Just because the Great Spirit of Pantheism might not be affected by prayer does not mean that the Creator isn't.
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Most prayers go unanswered. Prayer is not reliable. Studies reported by the New York Times and atheistic groups like Florida Freethinkers have studies that support this. OTOH, and not surprisingly, other studies that they won't print have shown the opposite.
Here is a link to 25 studies on prayer. What the reports show in general, is that prayer works measurably better when people have faith to believe it; prayers without faith have abysmal success rates. The closer one's relationship to Jesus, the more consistent the success in praying. As others have pointed out, you should address your relationship with Jesus first.
The verse from James 4:3 further complicates "scientific" study: You ask and do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, so that you may spend it on your pleasures. I doubt that God would endure an endless "experiment" and credit it to a good motive. Is wanting to obtain statistics to "prove" God a good motive? Not according to God.
I will take a teeny exception to what Eson The Searcher wrote: Praying to nothing gets no answer. Generally true, but if you persist, it is likely that a demonic spirit will oblige.
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Whatever the outcome, desirable or undesirable, it is impossible to determine God's will in the results because we do not know whether what happened was already going to happen or whether God magically intervened and changed the outcome. This is an easy one; God never "magically" intervenes. He will, however, respond to faith.
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We view personally desirable outcomes as evidence of God coming down on our behalf but in reality this is no good way of determining the will of God, if it exists, because if it does exist then it would be beyond our emotional perceptions of what is desirable and what is not. The first half of this statement (in navy) is true, but the second half (in burgundy) is nonsense. God said that he made man for fellowship, so it would be idiotic to then make man incapable of knowing God.
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God is going to do what needs to be done and our pleas will not change his mind because our views of things are so limited. Tell it to Hezekiah, then, because when he turned his face to the wall, God did change his mind. He had to send Isaiah back with a revised update. Full story in 2 Kings 20:1-11
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Therefore it is futile to pray to God to change anything on our behalf, what will happen will happen, because nothing can happen without God's tacit will to let it happen.”
¡ O, que sera sera ! 
Jesus told people to pray. I don't think he wanted them to waste their time.
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RE: I don't believe prayer actually works - 7/27/2010 12:32:07 PM
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JesusChrist07
Posts: 6
Joined: 1/22/2008
From: Ga
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I know for a fact Prayer works. I have seen what can do and i have seen something i cannot explain if it was not for prayer.
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Follower since December 18th 2006
Baptized on November 11th,2007
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RE: I don't believe prayer actually works - 7/29/2010 4:47:54 AM
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Ganheim
Posts: 88
Joined: 4/25/2008
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So what about when people pray for hope and they are broken, whether "killed" in the physical sense or in the psychological/emotional sense?
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Writer on Fiction Press, Fan Fiction, Deviant Art.
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RE: I don't believe prayer actually works - 7/29/2010 9:45:59 AM
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armydude
Posts: 8096
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
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Sometimes that very well could be explained by James 4:3. "When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures."
I've done it, and I thank God that He didn't give me what I wanted during those times.
_____________________________
What are the rules?
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RE: I don't believe prayer actually works - 8/3/2010 1:50:41 AM
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Ganheim
Posts: 88
Joined: 4/25/2008
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quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
Sometimes that very well could be explained by James 4:3. "When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures." I am afraid that there may have been a miscommunication. I can easily see how asking for a thing (a car, money, public office) could be done for selfish motives, but when all that we're asking for is to make it through a day, a week, an event, a mission without crumbling into bitterness?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ganheim
So what about when people pray for hope Not shiny rocks or power, not even necessarily to live through something, but to not be metaphorically destroyed by something? To not feel alone, to not feel useless, something like that?
_____________________________
Writer on Fiction Press, Fan Fiction, Deviant Art.
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RE: I don't believe prayer actually works - 8/3/2010 2:55:32 AM
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Debrinconcita
Posts: 4
Joined: 5/24/2010
From: Portland Oregon 97236
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I am a Native American Christian. I have seen rain dances work and many other dances work also, they don't sing for the rain to come at that very moment. they sing for it to come to water their crops. That's why you think that the rain dances never worked. I have really never heard of a rain dance in my Tribe anyways? So, maybe your correct they don't work, Or they don't exist? But, as for prayers not being answered. You have to be a real follower of God & he will answer your prayers. Sometimes he just does faster for some than others. The only time that he answers your prayers is when you can't make them happen yourself. Plus you have to be really devoted to helping other's and living a spiritual lifestyle at all times. I have had some of my prayer's answered by him. Like I was stuck in addiction to drugs & alcohol for 32+yrs. Now he made me sober & clean off all things. So I know for a fact that he is real & prayers are answered. You kinda have to be worthy to have them answered and talk to him alway's? Not just ask for things to happen. That's not the way that it works? really it isn't. I HOPE that you will continue to try and maybe he will answer them. If they are what he has in mind for your life. GOD BLESS YOU ALWAYS & KEEP TRYING & FOLLOWING YOUR HEART & DO WHAT YOU THINK GOD WANTS YOU TO DO IN YOUR LIFE. THANKS DEBRA Rincon Lopez in Portland Oregon USA.
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RE: I don't believe prayer actually works - 8/3/2010 9:38:23 AM
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missue
Posts: 3
Joined: 8/3/2010
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Prayer is hard, I also struggle with it, but I do believe that prayer works. I have amazing stories of friends who prayed, believe and let their faith shine through.
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RE: I don't believe prayer actually works - 8/3/2010 9:39:20 AM
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armydude
Posts: 8096
Joined: 2/12/2006
From: NC
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Ganheim
quote:
ORIGINAL: armydude
Sometimes that very well could be explained by James 4:3. "When you ask, you do not receive, because you ask with wrong motives, that you may spend what you get on your pleasures." I am afraid that there may have been a miscommunication. I can easily see how asking for a thing (a car, money, public office) could be done for selfish motives, but when all that we're asking for is to make it through a day, a week, an event, a mission without crumbling into bitterness?
quote:
ORIGINAL: Ganheim
So what about when people pray for hope Not shiny rocks or power, not even necessarily to live through something, but to not be metaphorically destroyed by something? To not feel alone, to not feel useless, something like that?
Here's a question to ponder. When talking to God, isn't it necessary to believe that He hears you (that prayer works) before your prayer can be effective? If you're trying to prove something regarding prayer, that's what I meant when I said "wrong motive."
_____________________________
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