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We are wealthy! - 6/22/2010 4:56:05 PM
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hellohellohi
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If we are Americans, most of us are wealthy --in the material sense! We are well-provided for, even if we have some worries, especially these days. We eat well. We have places to lay our heads, so to speak. Most of us have cars, which, Christianly-speaking, do not seem terribly important for individuals to own. We have lots of other neat stuff. Maybe some of this stuff we use in ways which seem to benefit the Christian cause, I dunno. Jesus said some things about it being difficult for the rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. Am I fanatic or a guilt-ridden liberal if I feel that I am too wealthy (even though I have an average or below average standard of living for the U.S.)? Is it possible to be Christian and to be middle class? Am I jerk for asking? Air-conditioning and carpet (you can take this as a metonymy, if you like) just make me feel really weird about being a Christian. Hopefully there is varying perspective out there! Y'all (the fora) have been a pretty interesting bunch so far, but I've never participated in the Finance page at all. So, maybe this isn't where I should pose these questions.
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RE: We are wealthy! - 6/22/2010 5:54:48 PM
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hellohellohi
Posts: 82
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From: North Carolina!
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hi!
You are helping me think from the perspective of a mother! I can certainly understand that the call to be a mother or a parent is going to involve sacrificing the ability to be very self-sacrificing! You definitely need a certain level of comfort to raise kids properly. But, it does sound like still a challenge -- how much is too much even for a parent? One thing that strikes me is that, if you are like me and lots of other Americans -- we rely mostly on ourselves and our immediate family for our support. We live apart from others that could help us. Often, we don't even share living space, meals, and so on. Of course, there are many exceptions, but this seems to describe the general demographic situation. I am speaking for myself, though, as well as trying to extrapolate to the average Christian, if possible. It seems like we live very inefficiently from the standpoint of how we use our resources, in ways we are able to share them, and so on. I believe this is a result of the focus on individuality placed by us as part of our culture (if we are American.) Any thoughts?
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RE: We are wealthy! - 6/22/2010 6:12:52 PM
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GroupW
Posts: 2234
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
And that we are not entitled to any of it. And that we may lose it at any moment and still need to have the ability to be content and thankful when there is little as opposed to much. And that it is all temporaral and won't be going with us to heaven.
thumbs up!
_____________________________
There is a theory that if ever anyone discovers what the Universe is and why it's here, it will instantly disappear & be replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another theory which states this has already happened. (D. Adams)
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RE: We are wealthy! - 6/23/2010 2:04:36 AM
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Mollymouser
Posts: 2083
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hellohellohi
Most of us have cars, which, Christianly-speaking, do not seem terribly important for individuals to own.
Am I fanatic or a guilt-ridden liberal if I feel that I am too wealthy (even though I have an average or below average standard of living for the U.S.)?
Is it possible to be Christian and to be middle class?
Am I jerk for asking?
Air-conditioning and carpet (you can take this as a metonymy, if you like) just make me feel really weird about being a Christian.
1. Well, since we live about 20+ miles from where my husband works (and he works very unusual hours), having a vehicle is a necessity for us. But owning a car (or not owning a car) isn't what makes someone a christian ~ that comes solely from having a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ and acknowledging Him as Savior and Lord.
2. I don't know you well enough from this post to know if you are a fanatic or a guilt-ridden liberal. Then again, I'm a grace-filled conservative. (grin)
3. One can be Christian and middle class. One can be Christian and be lower class. One can even be Christian and be upper class. Wealth and assets do not gain one entrance to heaven, nor bar the door. Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life ... and holds the keys to His kingdom.
4. Nope.
5. If air conditioning makes you feel weird as a christian, and that bothers you, prayerfully consider giving it up and not using it. If carpeting makes you feel weird as a christian, and that bothers you, prayerfully consider giving it up and not having any. I'm told that both tile as well as hardwood floors (or laminates) are very popular these days.
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RE: We are wealthy! - 6/23/2010 4:46:11 PM
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hellohellohi
Posts: 82
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: North Carolina!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: 3cappuccinosmom
quote:
It seems like we live very inefficiently from the standpoint of how we use our resources, in ways we are able to share them, and so on. I believe this is a result of the focus on individuality placed by us as part of our culture (if we are American.) Any thoughts?
I think we do. But there are pros and cons to both types of lifestyle. I've done the communal living thing. Lots of good parts to it. Some major problems too, though.
I would imagine so. Can you give me more details? Sounds interesting.
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RE: We are wealthy! - 6/23/2010 4:47:46 PM
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hellohellohi
Posts: 82
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: North Carolina!
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Mollymouser
quote:
ORIGINAL: hellohellohi
Most of us have cars, which, Christianly-speaking, do not seem terribly important for individuals to own.
Am I fanatic or a guilt-ridden liberal if I feel that I am too wealthy (even though I have an average or below average standard of living for the U.S.)?
Is it possible to be Christian and to be middle class?
Am I jerk for asking?
Air-conditioning and carpet (you can take this as a metonymy, if you like) just make me feel really weird about being a Christian.
1. Well, since we live about 20+ miles from where my husband works (and he works very unusual hours), having a vehicle is a necessity for us. But owning a car (or not owning a car) isn't what makes someone a christian ~ that comes solely from having a personal relationship with the Lord Jesus Christ and acknowledging Him as Savior and Lord.
2. I don't know you well enough from this post to know if you are a fanatic or a guilt-ridden liberal. Then again, I'm a grace-filled conservative. (grin)
3. One can be Christian and middle class. One can be Christian and be lower class. One can even be Christian and be upper class. Wealth and assets do not gain one entrance to heaven, nor bar the door. Jesus Christ is the Way, the Truth and the Life ... and holds the keys to His kingdom.
4. Nope.
5. If air conditioning makes you feel weird as a christian, and that bothers you, prayerfully consider giving it up and not using it. If carpeting makes you feel weird as a christian, and that bothers you, prayerfully consider giving it up and not having any. I'm told that both tile as well as hardwood floors (or laminates) are very popular these days.
Yes, probably, to everything you said. But I'm just trying to play devil's advocate. or somebody's advocate. dunno.
What about that business about it being easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle, etc.?
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RE: We are wealthy! - 6/23/2010 5:46:16 PM
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judii1
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I was thinking about this the other day. I was raised to believe that we should help everyone even to the point of giving our things to the less fortunate. I think I have changed my mind over the years. Maybe I have been scammed just one too many times.
Here is where I am coming from. There was a family who had a bunch of little kids. The dad was out of work. We would help them out a lot. A long time later, we found out that at the time we were helping and feeding their kids, they were collecting welfare, food stamps, and unemployment plus the man's sister who lived with them. was getting Social security disability. In other words, they had a lot more cash than what we had. The man was spending it on his cocaine habit.
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RE: We are wealthy! - 6/23/2010 9:36:42 PM
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Mollymouser
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quote:
ORIGINAL: hellohellohi
What about that business about it being easier for a camel to pass through the eye of the needle, etc.?
What must a person do to be saved?
Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ. (Acts 16:31) You must be born again. (John 3:7) "For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God; not as a result of works, so that no one may boast." (Ephesians 2:8-9) "For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord." (Romans 6:23) "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who hears My word, and believes Him who sent Me, has eternal life, and does not come into judgment, but has passed out of death into life." (John 5:24)
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RE: We are wealthy! - 6/23/2010 10:38:30 PM
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FreeEagle
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I find this question very interesting, mainly because I was raised poor. When asked about money my parents would often defend their poverty with things like "Money is the root of all evil"......And it was this very scripture that started my search for the truth... The Bible is very clear about money, but your position or belief is and will be based on 1.) your upbringing, and your acceptance of the truth. Normally I would leave scripture to back up my statmendt, but I don't have the time to look it up tonight. It's the LOVE of money that is the root of all evil - Money it self is not good or evil. If you have wealth and Don't know Jesus, you are to give up at least half, if not all your wealth and follow and trust Jesus. However if you gain your wealth after you have found Jesus, you must understand it as a blessing, and you have a great responsibility to manage it. From the time Adam and Eve were kicked out of the garden, we were to WORK for all we got. Jesus makes it very clear we are to make our money grow. We are to enjoy our work, and work as if we're working for God, not man. Even the one who was a thief and decided to follow Jesus, is to WORK so he has something to share. We are to be generous with what we get, and give from the heart.. And love your wife, so your giving will be blessed. And as we give, God will give us more (but that's not the reason to give), God just uses a bigger scoop. Our purpose in life is to work, and be happy, and to give.. We are suppose to take care of our homes, and our families, even those family members that grow old on us. We were blessed, (not cursed). We reap what we sow from the heart.
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I will instruct you and teach you in the way you should go;
I will counsel you and watch over you. Do not be like the horse and the mule, which have no understanding but must be controlled by bit and bridle or they will not come to you.
Psalms 32 8-
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RE: We are wealthy! - 6/24/2010 9:00:05 AM
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ta_mosquito
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quote:
If you have wealth and Don't know Jesus, you are to give up at least half, if not all your wealth and follow and trust Jesus.
I would love to see in-context Scripture for this. And no, the Rich Young Ruler doesn't count - that was specific instruction to a specific man whom Jesus knew to be enslaved by his wealth.
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RE: We are wealthy! - 6/24/2010 10:47:13 AM
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peace77
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quote:
Don't know Jesus, you are to give up at least half, if not all your wealth and follow and trust Jesus. However if you gain your wealth after you have found Jesus, you must understand it as a blessing, and you have a great responsibility to manage it.
Where did you hear this?
It doesn't matter when we meet Jesus, we are all to follow and trust Him.
God blesses all whether we recognize it or not. Did you see the news footage of the children in Haiti? They were singing for joy, yet they have nothing!!
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RE: We are wealthy! - 6/24/2010 11:32:07 AM
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PrimaryOvertone
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There are many examples in scripture of people who were poor who served God but there are also example of those who were rich who served God. Examples such as Job, Abraham, Joseph, Joseph of Arimathia, etc. These folks were used by God. We must remember that when we gave Jesus lordship in our lives he became ruler of everything that is ours. That is why Paul called himself a slave to Christ. Is it right for the slave to tell the master how he should be living? No, the slave must be content with whatever he is given by the Master.
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RE: We are wealthy! - 6/28/2010 1:09:51 PM
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hellohellohi
Posts: 82
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From: North Carolina!
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I appreciate everyone's posts so far.
But part of or my main point in the OP was that if you are like me and fall somewhere into the category "middle class Americans" we start off with quite a bit more wealth -- measured in terms of the comforts and conveniences we are endowed with, not to mention the relative lack of material concern most of us enjoy due to our position over having our daily needs met -- that perhaps we have not taken this wealth into account when we try to decide how wealthy is likely to be okay, Christianly-speaking. It doesn't seem justified. Part of the difficulty with this question is, what can we really do about it? But first, I am just asking, does this "baseline" wealth seem like a problem to anyone?
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RE: We are wealthy! - 6/28/2010 7:10:45 PM
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PrimaryOvertone
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I think that I can put this in perspective by asking a question. Are you asking if God was wrong to put you into a middle class family at birth? Can you honestly say "God, you blessed me so much that it is a sin."
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RE: We are wealthy! - 6/28/2010 7:20:28 PM
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Palavra
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quote:
ORIGINAL: PrimaryOvertone
I think that I can put this in perspective by asking a question. Are you asking if God was wrong to put you into a middle class family at birth? Can you honestly say "God, you blessed me so much that it is a sin."
But how many of us who are born into wealthy (by the world's standards) families ever question if we are too materialistic? It is so easy to look around and think that we are just living like everyone else we know and not think about the 90% of the rest of the world that lives with far less. How often do we question whether or nor material wealth is an idol in our lives?
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RE: We are wealthy! - 6/29/2010 11:02:11 AM
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creationtalk
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quote:
that perhaps we have not taken this wealth into account when we try to decide how wealthy is likely to be okay, Christianly-speaking. It doesn't seem justified. Part of the difficulty with this question is, what can we really do about it?
There is no limit on how wealthy is OK for a Christian. The most wealthy person in the world can be a Christian if he/she has accepted Christ as savior. Signs would be: 1) Gives God the credit for the wealth and thanks him for it; 2) Uses that wealth to benefit others (this does NOT mean that the wealth must be given away--in some/many cases using the money to form a business to make MORE money and employing people is better than giving money to those in need.)
quote:
But first, I am just asking, does this "baseline" wealth seem like a problem to anyone?
No.
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RE: We are wealthy! - 7/8/2010 12:52:46 AM
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ForgivenGrace
Posts: 846
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Palavra
quote:
ORIGINAL: PrimaryOvertone
I think that I can put this in perspective by asking a question. Are you asking if God was wrong to put you into a middle class family at birth? Can you honestly say "God, you blessed me so much that it is a sin."
But how many of us who are born into wealthy (by the world's standards) families ever question if we are too materialistic? It is so easy to look around and think that we are just living like everyone else we know and not think about the 90% of the rest of the world that lives with far less. How often do we question whether or nor material wealth is an idol in our lives?
I would suggest you stop generalizing until you get to know all the wealthy people.
quote:
ORIGINAL: hellohellohi
I appreciate everyone's posts so far.
But part of or my main point in the OP was that if you are like me and fall somewhere into the category "middle class Americans" we start off with quite a bit more wealth -- measured in terms of the comforts and conveniences we are endowed with, not to mention the relative lack of material concern most of us enjoy due to our position over having our daily needs met -- that perhaps we have not taken this wealth into account when we try to decide how wealthy is likely to be okay, Christianly-speaking. It doesn't seem justified. Part of the difficulty with this question is, what can we really do about it? But first, I am just asking, does this "baseline" wealth seem like a problem to anyone?
Next semester when I graduate and then I get a job I will not feel guilty. Because I am doing what God has called me to do.
Nor do I feel guilty for getting my school paid for through Vocational
Rehab. Because I am doing what God has called me to do.
I volunteer at my church in their Nursery every third Sunday and the fifth Sunday when there is one. I am doing what God has called me to do.
_____________________________
You have brains in your head. You have feet in your shoes. You can steer yourself any direction you choose. ~Dr. Seuss
Faith is taking the first step even when you don't see the whole staircase.-Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.
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RE: We are wealthy! - 7/22/2010 10:29:35 PM
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Pamsy
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So if you didnt have that baseline wealth, how will that benefit someone else anyhow? Do you want to give it away to various organizations to provide for those in other countries less fortunate? Maybe that would rectify the dilema you are having alot better than just saying 'i dont deserve this'.
Last night I realized something about myself. Reading in Chorinthians how God loves a cheerfull giver, not one who begrudingly gives, or compulsively gives, but who has determined in his heart what to give. I honestly have been giving too much, compulsively at times. So, I decided in my heart what to give beyond the tithe and plan on sticking with that unless the Lord lays something on my heart.
If God endows you with wealth, you have more to give away. Maybe the capet vs flooring etc is sort of like splitting hairs.
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Matthew 11:28-30 "Come to me, all you who are weary and burdened, and I will give you rest... my yoke is easy, and my burden is light."
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RE: We are wealthy! - 5/23/2011 10:21:08 PM
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hellohellohi
Posts: 82
Joined: 12/10/2007
From: North Carolina!
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If we are to imagine ourselves contemporaneous with Christ -- and shouldn't we ? -- wouldn't we be told to give up our (American-sized) wealth and follow him?
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RE: We are wealthy! - 5/23/2011 11:00:05 PM
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WasLostAmFound
Posts: 1591
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"Wealth" is only really a problem when you make it your God.
While my husband and I have been praying about simplifying our lives, we do not, for a minute feel guilty for the blessings we have been blessed with. We know that God is the one who has blessed us and can take it all like He did to Job in a heartbeat. We use our blessings to bless others...such as, providing a home to a young mother and her 3 little girls, letting her use one of our vehicles, providing a home and care to my mother who is disabled and elderly. So, is it wrong that we have a big house and 3 vehicles? Should we get rid of our home and vehicles and wear sackcloth and ashes? Would it be more "holy" of us to go live in a tent in the park?
I don't understand why you'd feel especially guilty. The scripture about it being easier for a camel to go thru the eye of a needle is more about that people get attached to their wealth and make that their god. If you can share what you have, then it's not a big deal.
< Message edited by WasLostAmFound -- 5/23/2011 11:06:37 PM >
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