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RE: HELP!!! Need sound advice!!! - 7/28/2010 10:39:11 AM
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VanDuzer
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You'll get a million different views on discipline, but I think the important thing is to do it with love. In any case, you have to be firm. Children, especially that age (good old puberty kicking in), can sense any waivering (or weakness) on your part and will exploit it. Be firm.
The prepubescent girl can be a handful. I have one. There is a weird psychology where the girl often resents the mother. Discussing this very subject recently with a male friend that has 2 daughters (and had 3 sisters as a child), he said the girls were a LOT harder on mom (i.e. his mom, and his wife). I only say this so you know that you're not alone out there.
Anyway, I'm a guy - there's probably some ladies here with better insights.
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RE: HELP!!! Need sound advice!!! - 7/28/2010 11:00:08 AM
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TXRedhead
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Consistency and time. I think these 2 things more than anything [aside from love and prayer] are going to be key.
Make sure you're also spending quality time with her--- play board games, go to places like the zoo, etc. Have you got any close male relations [like your father or a brother] who could also spend time with her to help fill the void her father has left? That would be good for her, too.
Give her time and the counseling time--- and be clear and consistent with her in the meantime.
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RE: HELP!!! Need sound advice!!! - 7/28/2010 11:07:41 AM
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Gabby777
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quote:
ORIGINAL: TXRedhead
Consistency and time. I think these 2 things more than anything [aside from love and prayer] are going to be key.
Make sure you're also spending quality time with her--- play board games, go to places like the zoo, etc. Have you got any close male relations [like your father or a brother] who could also spend time with her to help fill the void her father has left? That would be good for her, too.
Give her time and the counseling time--- and be clear and consistent with her in the meantime.
Thank you...time is definitely essential...I don't really have any good male role models around that are family...but some of the younger men in the church try and be a good example to her which is nice...she loves it when we spend quality time together and I try to use that as a reward for her good behavior.
_____________________________
Proverbs 3:5-6: Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
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RE: HELP!!! Need sound advice!!! - 7/28/2010 11:10:40 AM
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VanDuzer
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Gabby777
VanDuzer,
Thank you...I know I need to be consistent and "firm" is definitely a good word. I definitely try and show her love and use the Word to tell her that the Lord instructs me to discipline her...it is definitely a hard road without her daddy around 
Gabby,
I'll pray for ya. I do highly recommend reading some books on female puberty and adolescence. It is very hard for females as they start to grow, and begin to recognize themselves as individuals - instead of identifying themselves with mother (as when younger). It's independence vs. dependence. Also, society projects a lot of garbage on young women, and they struggle with that as it relates to their own identity (Ophelia Complex or sorts). Anyway, I haven't read about this issue in a long time, but there are some very insightly books out there. They'll help you get inside your daughter's mind, and help you understand some things about yourself. Anyway, that's what I would recommend.
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RE: HELP!!! Need sound advice!!! - 7/28/2010 11:22:17 AM
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Gabby777
Posts: 193
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quote:
ORIGINAL: VanDuzer
quote:
ORIGINAL: Gabby777
VanDuzer,
Thank you...I know I need to be consistent and "firm" is definitely a good word. I definitely try and show her love and use the Word to tell her that the Lord instructs me to discipline her...it is definitely a hard road without her daddy around
Gabby,
I'll pray for ya. I do highly recommend reading some books on female puberty and adolescence. It is very hard for females as they start to grow, and begin to recognize themselves as individuals - instead of identifying themselves with mother (as when younger). It's independence vs. dependence. Also, society projects a lot of garbage on young women, and they struggle with that as it relates to their own identity (Ophelia Complex or sorts). Anyway, I haven't read about this issue in a long time, but there are some very insightly books out there. They'll help you get inside your daughter's mind, and help you understand some things about yourself. Anyway, that's what I would recommend.
Thank you...do you know of any good ones?
_____________________________
Proverbs 3:5-6: Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
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RE: HELP!!! Need sound advice!!! - 7/28/2010 11:56:12 AM
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VanDuzer
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quote:
Thank you...do you know of any good ones?
Sadly, I don't remember. I'll check this evening when I get home. We also have a couple of books written specifically for the pre-teen girl - to help her understand what was happening to her mind & body. Our daughter read when she was 11 (now 12). It seemed to help bring some things into perspective, and help us begin to communicate on another level. But, she still gets sassy!! LOL
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RE: HELP!!! Need sound advice!!! - 7/28/2010 12:11:08 PM
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his_chosen
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I wonder if she's trying to see if you still love her? Insted of rewarding good behavior, maybe do something special when things are going rough. Let her know that even when she's a pain, you still love her.
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RE: HELP!!! Need sound advice!!! - 7/28/2010 12:51:59 PM
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bolt.
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Aside from cool, firm consistency (and love and prayer)... I'd like to ask what you think would happen if you gave her some of the things she wants. Is there a reason she can not have 'the last word' in an argument? Are there times when you can allow her to hold her own opinion or make unwise choices?
Most of the time there is very little reason for an adult to argue with a child over the little things of the day. Rather than continuing to do that, perhaps it's time to start shifting your parenting model away from the command-and-punishment model to the choice-and-consequence model.
Example out of thin air:
Instead of, "Come and put your shoes and backpack away. You are not allowed to leave them in the hallway." (Which is command-and-punishment, because, presumably if she didn't do so, you would punish her not for the shoes-and-backpack, but for refusing to obey you.)
Choice-and-consequences would be, "I see your shoes and backpack in the hallway, which is not their proper place. Will you fix that situation, or do you plan on leaving them there for me to deal with?" In that situation, no matter what she does, there is neither disobedience, nor reason to argue, nor punishment.
There are, however, consequences. If she leaves the items for you to deal with, perhaps you confiscate them for a while (if she has other shoes... and she can use a grocery bag to take her books etc. to school).
The reason this is different is because the consequence is about the real problem (untidy items in the way) not about mom's standards and daughter's compliance. It's a rule about what happens to stuff when it's in mom's way, not about what happens to children when they don't do what they're told. And the whole thing focuses on what you really want (tidy stuff) and does not get side tracked into personal issues.
You purposefully refused to allow her to disobey you... but you did it by not telling her what to do. Rather you told her two things she was allowed to do, but one of the things that she was allowed to do was a poor choice that had results she wouldn't like.
This model works really well most of the time, primarily because it keeps the security and affection of the parent-child relationship intact. It makes all the issues about stuff, not people. And your dd really REALLY needs the security and affection of her relationship with you right now.
When you have to impliment a consiquence, she can be angry, but you can be sympathetic, saying, "I know. The consiquence sucks. I wish you hadn't made that choice too. I didn't want to have to ground you / take your stuff away / cancel a fun activity... whatever. I really want you to have the most fun life I can give you. I didn't choose <whatever>. You did. And I hope you won't do it often. It's not fun for either of us, when I need to take actions like this."
(Of course there are times where you just have to tell her what to do, or not do. When you have to, you have to. But think it through in your own situation: I bet 90% of the time you don't actually have to. When you do have to give her a command, if she doesn't do it, of course you have to address the defiance... it's just that not everything has to be a defiance issue.)
_____________________________
Are you having trouble getting your daily dose of the life changing Word of God?
Let my friend Brian at Daily Audio Bible help you too.
>>audio link<<
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RE: HELP!!! Need sound advice!!! - 7/28/2010 3:42:04 PM
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cynthia
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How is taking something away a "consequence" and not a "punishment"?
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Often times the battle is the worst right before a breakthrough. In order to get us to give up, the devil wants us to think we are losing, when in fact we need to fight on to victory.
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RE: HELP!!! Need sound advice!!! - 7/28/2010 4:19:41 PM
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dzehm007
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Try to spend as much time as you can with her and get her involved in girls club activities or maybe a big sister program. She is hurt, upset and probably blaiming herself that her dad is not around. Hope I've helped. I'll pray for her.
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RE: HELP!!! Need sound advice!!! - 7/28/2010 4:46:09 PM
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GraceyGirl
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quote:
ORIGINAL: Gabby777
...she loves it when we spend quality time together and I try to use that as a reward for her good behavior.
No no no no no no no no no a hundred times NO!
Quality time is NOT meant to be a reward. Your child needs that quality time with you in order to thrive, to grow, to be nurtured, etc. If you're "rewarding" her with something that is a basic need, you've got to stop.
Rewarding children with something that's a basic need, like food, warm clothing, nurturing, etc is VERY very confusing to them. You do not "reward" your child with your love for them, and quality time is a manifestation of that love. Quality time should be a given. . .for normal, avg behavior. Even if your child is behaving poorly, you still need to make time for you and she to connect. . .or you're going to end up with a disconnect that is irreparable.
Find other ways to "reward" her. Instead of just quality time, perhaps plan a special outing (that's not the norm) and let her know, "If you're able to keep your mouth under control this week, you and I are going to go the botanical gardens." (or whatever you decided) And then, allow her to decide if she is going to follow through on the choices necessary to do this speical event, but don't withhold nurturing and quality time from her.
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I have every confidence in God’s ability to work through you…don’t give anything away just because He is stretching you. ~ Donious Eichhornious
Our Village Life
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RE: HELP!!! Need sound advice!!! - 7/28/2010 5:04:36 PM
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GregandJenny
Posts: 480
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From: Near Seattle Washington
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quote:
How is taking something away a "consequence" and not a "punishment"?
i think it really lies in the fact that she had an option to either take care of it or let mom take care of it, giving the kid control of what happens.
the punishment would be for disobeying..
right bolt?
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RE: HELP!!! Need sound advice!!! - 7/28/2010 5:10:33 PM
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bolt.
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quote:
How is taking something away a "consequence" and not a "punishment"?
I'm just using the two terms to try and highlight two distinct tactics, as mental tags for something that could be confusing otherwise. The terms generally mean the same thing, and can be used interchangeably (except that there is such a thing as a good consequence of action).
I'm trying to point out that you want to have the consequences/punishment to be a deterrent to the original behaviour (eg. leaving out shoes) rather than for something surrounding parental authority, respect etc.
A consequence/punishment that has to do with parental authority will occasionally be necessary, it's just a lot wiser to make some battles only about 'learn to keep your environment tidy' (or whatever skill you are trying to )instead of clouding every issue with 'do what I tell you when I tell you' -- which is a much more important issue, and tends to crowd the real situational learning experience out of the picture.
IMO, as kids get older, they have a much lower tolerance for 'do what I tell you when I tell you' -- and they tend to instinctively take it the wrong way, thinking it has something to do with their parent's trust, love and overall approval of them as people. However they don't tend to take situational consequences in that manner, or at least not as harshly.
_____________________________
Are you having trouble getting your daily dose of the life changing Word of God?
Let my friend Brian at Daily Audio Bible help you too.
>>audio link<<
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RE: HELP!!! Need sound advice!!! - 7/28/2010 5:26:29 PM
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VanDuzer
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quote:
Quality time is NOT meant to be a reward. Your child needs that quality time with you in order to thrive, to grow, to be nurtured, etc.
I agree with GraceyGirl.
Part of what I was getting at earlier regarding puberty, adolescence, and a dependent child becoming an individual - is very much about how you interact with them. Girls, in particular, are bombarded (via television, music, computer, magazines, etc.) with false ideas of what a woman is or should be - with sexuality usually at the core. Now that my daughter is coming of age, I can't stand to turn on the TV or radio - sex, sex, sex is everywhere (direct or implied). I'm much more aware of it now! It's the undercurrent of most things in the media - definately the advertising & marketing end. The Big Media/Marketing Machine is essentially raising our children, teaching them all the wrong things about womanhood and self image. It dehumanizes girls. Budding girls are not only confused by this, it leads to a lot of inner turmoil because parents and others give them contrary messages.
The short of all my rambling is, if you don't give your daughter the attention and "healthy validation" the she desperately needs, she will seek it elsewhere - from places and people you don't want her to.
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RE: HELP!!! Need sound advice!!! - 7/28/2010 5:49:19 PM
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Gabby777
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bolt, that is definitely some sound advice...one issue is the whining when she has to put something away or the "in a minute" any suggestions on that?
_____________________________
Proverbs 3:5-6: Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
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RE: HELP!!! Need sound advice!!! - 7/28/2010 5:51:38 PM
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Gabby777
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quote:
ORIGINAL: dzehm007
Try to spend as much time as you can with her and get her involved in girls club activities or maybe a big sister program. She is hurt, upset and probably blaiming herself that her dad is not around. Hope I've helped. I'll pray for her.
Thank you. I think I will look into the Big Sister Program, I never thought of that...she so wants to be a big sister herself and I had talked about foster care or adopting, but our situation is not ideal at the moment.
_____________________________
Proverbs 3:5-6: Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
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RE: HELP!!! Need sound advice!!! - 7/28/2010 5:59:01 PM
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Gabby777
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GraceyGirl,
I said that wrong, what I meant was I use opportunities like going to get ice cream or go to a movie as a reward, but it is also good quality time. We have nice walks and trips to the park together. I see why you thought that though...I definitely try to give her as much as me as possible and we have lots of great talks...it just gets hard when she has "attitude" and doesn't want to do her chores and whatnot.
_____________________________
Proverbs 3:5-6: Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
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RE: HELP!!! Need sound advice!!! - 7/28/2010 7:33:24 PM
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deermousie
Posts: 2742
Joined: 9/26/2007
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Her life has been devastated - you lost your husband but she's lost everything but you, and she's maybe scared she's going to lose you, too. She might be testing your commitment to her; dunno.
Keep loving her, keep talking to her, keep letting her talk about how she feels. She's been rejected by her father, and that is life-shattering. As an adult, you have some balance on that but to her it's personal and global.
I'm sorry your husband left. Your burden is back-breaking now even without your child's devastation. May God give you wisdom and strength.
Here's a group of counselors who counsel from the Bible; I trust these guys:
http://www.nanc.org/Directory.aspx
I'm praying for you and her right now.
< Message edited by deermousie -- 7/29/2010 12:32:54 AM >
_____________________________
People died to give you the Bible in your language.
Read it. Eat it. Dwell in it. Rightly divide it. Live it.
Laugh, dance, praise your God, and go read some more. And God bless you.
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RE: HELP!!! Need sound advice!!! - 7/28/2010 8:49:05 PM
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VanDuzer
Posts: 45
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quote:
Her life has been devasted - you lost your husband but she's lost everything but you
quote:
Keep loving her, keep talking to her, keep letting her talk about how she feels. She's been rejected by her father
Yes, it's difficult (perhaps devastating)....but, it's really a pretty common event. But, the biggest source of the difficulty is what I'm talking about above - sexuality and the Big Media. Young women are conditioned and programmed day after day after day, that their validity as a human being comes from male attention.
I will even propose that that concept is so ingrained in many of you ladies, that you don't even recognize it. She hasn't lost everything!!!!! In fact, to place Gabby at the end of the sentence phrasing it as, "but you", is condescending from my perspective. I'm not just being dramatic! As a man, my mother is "everything" to me. She is a source of validation, however men have the luxury to find that in many other areas - and are in fact conditioned to do so. However, for women it's about being a size 1, on the cover of Vogue, or the "chick" in the music video that men are oogling and whistling at. Stated simply, women's viability in our society is dependent on male acceptance of them. They are conditioned to be objects for males. So YES, it is difficult and perhaps devastating, but for all the wrong reasons.
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RE: HELP!!! Need sound advice!!! - 7/28/2010 8:59:48 PM
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Gabby777
Posts: 193
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quote:
ORIGINAL: deermousie
Her life has been devasted - you lost your husband but she's lost everything but you, and she's maybe scared she's going to lose you, too. She might be testing your commitment to her; dunno.
Keep loving her, keep talking to her, keep letting her talk about how she feels. She's been rejected by her father, and that is life-shattering. As an adult, you have some balance on that but to her it's personal and global.
I'm sorry your husband left. Your burden is back-breaking now even without your child's devastation. May God give you wisdom and strength.
Here's a group of counselors who counsel from the Bible; I trust these guys:
http://www.nanc.org/Directory.aspx
I'm praying for you and her right now.
Thank you so much!
_____________________________
Proverbs 3:5-6: Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
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RE: HELP!!! Need sound advice!!! - 7/28/2010 9:08:45 PM
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Gabby777
Posts: 193
Joined: 7/9/2010
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quote:
ORIGINAL: VanDuzer
[Yes, it's difficult (perhaps devastating)....but, it's really a pretty common event. But, the biggest source of the difficulty is what I'm talking about above - sexuality and the Big Media. Young women are conditioned and programmed day after day after day, that their validity as a human being comes from male attention.
I will even propose that that concept is so ingrained in many of you ladies, that you don't even recognize it. She hasn't lost everything!!!!! In fact, to place Gabby at the end of the sentence phrasing it as, "but you", is condescending from my perspective. I'm not just being dramatic! As a man, my mother is "everything" to me. She is a source of validation, however men have the luxury to find that in many other areas - and are in fact conditioned to do so. However, for women it's about being a size 1, on the cover of Vogue, or the "chick" in the music video that men are oogling and whistling at. Stated simply, women's viability in our society is dependent on male acceptance of them. They are conditioned to be objects for males. So YES, it is difficult and perhaps devastating, but for all the wrong reasons.
I agree that the media is ridiculous...the wonderful thing is that me and my husband, when he was living for the Lord, instilled good morals in her....she doesn't get to look at teen magazines or watch movies that instill way too young of "love" (even those shows on Disney)...she doesn't have posters of guys or even girl role models...she is mostly a Jesus freak and dog freak, (she has dog posters) which is awesome...but she has told me things like I want to be as skinny as my aunt, who is 14, or she will say she doesn't think she is that pretty...I tell her she is beautiful and made in the image of God...
_____________________________
Proverbs 3:5-6: Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding. In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.
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